Streamers advantages & RTP/Big wins (another it's RIGGED thread)

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@Jane Greenwoodthank you for your insightful reply.

Your analogy is interesting though a bit inaccurate. Let me assure you that if TV channels companies broadcasting a game could influence a game to be more interesting and never end in 0:0, they would in a heartbeat. The relationship between football clubs and TV channels is not direct client/provider like casinos and providers and such "rigging" is impossible as too many variables are in place (players, staff, etc..)

Casino operators are clients of the slot providers and obviously have much more influence as to what product they're getting. For example: we already know that there are different "RTP" versions of slots already available.

Regarding streamers - you're working for a large operator, which is somewhat different than many smaller, less respected casinos where streaming might provide a great channel for client acquisition.

Regarding loyalty, I'm coming from this business as stated before. I know all about LTV (lifetime value) and I agree that making a player come back is much better than having multiple players come and deposit once.

What I would like to know is:

1. What options are given to an operator when they implement games on their website in regards to winning odds, RTP, etc?

2. If choosing an RTP version is available, Is it possible for an operator to purchase license for multiple versions and serving different versions to different players based on some internal logic?

3. What can you tell us about regulation in this field regarding the actual games? do you have periodic evaluations or you get a license, get an audit and that's it? Is regulation strict in terms of which version you're using, when you're making changes, etc?

Thank you for any information given.

 
beetaillight said:
1. What options are given to an operator when they implement games on their website in regards to winning odds, RTP, etc?
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It is obviously different from each supplier of games, but if there are multiple RTPs available, then usually in the weeks before the game is due to go live, we will get a marketing email from them listing all the key features of the game,  a reminder of the launch date, and different game ids corresponding to the different RTP levels. This is not how all do it, but most.

There are no options for controlling hit rates of bonuses or any other controls like that. There are options for things like limiting the max bet if an operator wanted to reduce the potential liability of a volatile game with a large max win, or turn the gamble feature off or bonus buys off.

beetaillight said:
2. If choosing an RTP version is available, Is it possible for an operator to purchase license for multiple versions and serving different versions to different players based on some internal logic?
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The closest thing I can think of that actually happens is that some countries get different RTPs in different countries. With the recent changes to German regulations, some operators have lowered the RTP of content for German players, but kept it higher for non German players. But for the company I work for it would, from a current technical point of view, be impossible to offer one RTP to some customers (say VIPs) and a different to RTP to newer customers. One factor in this is a lot of companies that are big in the industry run things like their CMS systems off very old tech. Chances are the system that was used to launch starburst all them years ago is still being used to launch the latest Netnet games. Sure, it can be adapted, and worked on for regulatory changes, but it would be a mammoth task to get technical teams to work on splitting out RTPs for customers from the same regions. 

beetaillight said:
. What can you tell us about regulation in this field regarding the actual games? do you have periodic evaluations or you get a license, get an audit and that's it? Is regulation strict in terms of which version you're using, when you're making changes, etc?
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It differs from license to license. Yearly audits are a legal requirement in Denmark for example. Suppliers are very good at monitoring the RTPs of their games and alerting operators to any issues. It isn't something that happens frequently, but it does happen. When it does, the regulators are informed for each of the areas there is a breach. so UKGC, MGA etc.. Then reports have to be filed and account managers get an earful from operators because of all the hassle it has caused. 

what happens for most big operators is that an internal compliance team will have to sign off a game getting launched before it can go live on the website. So they will make sure all the certificates are accurate and from a testing house that is certified itself,  and relate to the game and gamecode being used to put the game live, and that it has been tested in all the countries the operator is in. 

It is a very good point though. Compliance teams at any large operator consist of 20,30, 50, maybe more people, whose job it is day in and day out is to make sure what is put on the website is far and not breaching any laws or license requirements, and come down hard on any supplier who breaches any of these rules.  

And from the other side, all suppliers have compliance teams whos job it is is to get their games tested. 

 
OMG guys, I've been streaming for 3 years now, and my bet size is the same 99% of all the times I gamble :D It is between $1-$3 bet size. If I was playing with fake money, I would be doing $100k "raw" bonus hunt every day LOL  With $100 bets!

 
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Casinolandstreaming said:
OMG guys, I've been streaming for 3 years now, and my bet size is the same 99% of all the times I gamble :D It is between $1-$3 bet size. If I was playing with fake money, I would be doing $100k "raw" bonus hunt every day LOL  With $100 bets!
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Perhaps your situation is different from the high stake streamers.

I've been playing a lot less lately as I'm watching streams and it really looks like those "reality tv" where everything seems to be in order but you all know that it's all cooked behind the scenes to provide you with the best show possible.

Seems lately these big wins are getting more frequent for big streamers and bigger in size. Rosh making 150k, 300k, 500k all in a matter of a week. Now, Classybeef with a lucky 500k hit and some 150k hits to top it off.

It's like competing TV channels where each wanna show bigger scores than the others.

Seems like this is what slot streaming is going to be in the future... a lot of money involved, a lot of rigging games, playing with fake money... everything to make the viewers entertained and maybe even drop in a dollar or two.

I find this scene becoming increasingly disguisting. Only thing I can say is that I pitty the people who are completely unaware of this and throw away buckets of money.

 
beetaillight said:
Perhaps your situation is different from the high stake streamers.

I've been playing a lot less lately as I'm watching streams and it really looks like those "reality tv" where everything seems to be in order but you all know that it's all cooked behind the scenes to provide you with the best show possible.

Seems lately these big wins are getting more frequent for big streamers and bigger in size. Rosh making 150k, 300k, 500k all in a matter of a week. Now, Classybeef with a lucky 500k hit and some 150k hits to top it off.

It's like competing TV channels where each wanna show bigger scores than the others.

Seems like this is what slot streaming is going to be in the future... a lot of money involved, a lot of rigging games, playing with fake money... everything to make the viewers entertained and maybe even drop in a dollar or two.

I find this scene becoming increasingly disguisting. Only thing I can say is that I pitty the people who are completely unaware of this and throw away buckets of money.
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Not only big hits, but big hits on "new" casinos that no one has heard of before. This business is icky and it reeks with foulness behind the scenes. I completely get that some people has alot of money and nothing better to do then to stream all day and spend it on slots (I would not chose this life, tho), but the amount of big wins, each week, from the same people, is insane. Just look at CGs big wins compilations, it's basically the same streamers that win big every week but when you look at the community big wins, we see different members every week. Some, like myself, showing up sometimes but not every week. 

 
When looking for information, that is freely available to the public,  it is normally best to look in the public domain. 

try google

click a UKGC link and see where it leads you.

It’s partially why I get so annoyed as there is no effort put in by you guys, just speculation, and stroking each other to climax.

 
Don't be naïve, online casino regulation is a joke. Besides that, most casinos operate under some crap license which is not under any type of actual regulation.

The only thing I can repeat to this forum viewers is that nothing you see is real. The whole casino streaming is made solely for the purpose of casinos to get your deposits. It's paid advertising... all casino streamers are a part of this same system, whether they deposit real money or play with fake money.

 
beetaillight said:
So, i've been playing for over a year. Most of the time on a regular basis. Also, i'm watching slot streamers all the time (multiple at a time).

The conclusion I came to is that, it 3 words - everything is rigged. This is very general, I know, but let me explain.

Before I start, I would like to say that there are quite a few slot streamers which I like very much and this post has nothing to do with the entertainment value i'm getting from watching slot streamers.

I've read a lot of threads regarding buffed RTP for streamers and what I gathered from all is basically that most people don't get big hits (over 1000x) often as they see their favorite streamers do. The most common answer was that the hours spent by streamers + RNG is the reason for the seemingly high big hit ratio.

I agree, it does seem logic that more hours = more big wins.

I don't buy that though. I've seen streamers (which I love) like JamJar and Vaneo (Sacha) which play a few hours a day - not more than 3-4 hours a day. They are getting massive wins I would say at least a few times a month (you can watch their VODs to see yourself).

Seeing people's responses (playing a year, got 1000x once, etc..). and from my experience - my max win was x3000 once in about 15 months of daily 2-3 hour plays and i can say that I get hits like 1000x maybe once a month if that. Yesterday, I watch Daske (which I love as well) and they hit 1200-1400x twice on the same stream, 1 hour apart. Needless to say nothing like that ever happened to me. 

Some Numbers

Lets look at numbers a bit: I'm playing 2-3 hours a day (say 2.5), playing for 15 months - that's roughly 1125 hours. Since I keep my wins on excel I have the data, so I had 9 >1000x hits in that time period. so that makes it: one >1000x / 125 hours => one >1000x hit / 4 months. Regarding my favorite streamers: Some play roughly the same (JamJar, Sacha), some much more (CasinoDaddy, Classy, Daske, etc..). However if you take 10 hours a day of play and I'm sure you can agree that they get >1000x hit at least once a week. That would make it in 15 months, or 4500 hours - 60 >1000x hits. I'm quite sure the numbers are not way off. I can pull VODs and count hours and big hits but I think it's safe to say that streamers get more big hits per hour, regardless of the # of hours the pull each day. Period.

Of course you can always say: "you had a bad year", "streamers just hit blind luck", etc... I'm sure that if you took the real numbers and put them in a statistics software you would see that the population of streamers is different than the population of "regular gamblers" in the RTP aspect, meaning there is a clear advantage here.

Regarding the word RTP, i'm not sure it's even better RTP. Maybe it's the ability to hit big hits more often.

Why?

So the question is why... and the answer is very simple. Streamers, knowingly or unknowingly are agents of the casinos the promote. Not just in the fact that they actually promote them physically but also as virtual representatives of those casinos. How they play and the hits they get reflect on the casino itself. So, it makes sense that a casino will want to promote themselves by giving the "guy on the TV" an edge and show AMAZING 100K hits and not just 50x here and there.

How?

Regarding technical issues: I'm a developer and i've looked over the slot code on some casinos. The slot provider (Play'N'Go, Pragmatic, etc..) receive the user id of a player from the website from the casino (partner), where they probably do a handshake which retrieves user data from the casino, like balance, etc... to display on the slot. It's very simple to send the provider a "user type" which would get the provider's slot algorithm act accordingly and change the RTP, give them big hits every X spins or any such logic you can think of.

But isn't that cheating?

It is.. it's fraud. But what about regulations? People must understand, that casino regulation is VERY slim. Add to that the fact that it's a money driven eco-system and it's not exactly clean, you can imagine how providers (not all i'm sure) can implant RTP tweaking on their software and how casinos (not all i'm sure) can transmit data like "who's playing" to the provider. All it takes is a forbidden handshake like that and it means millions and billions from people who want to get that 100k hit but will probably never will.

Live games

One last matter. Live games. The ability to rig a live table is much much harder since in most cases there isn't a software involved. I believe this is a pretty big reason why casinos don't want you to play live games when you're getting a bonus. I mean, why would they not allow that overwise?

Thats it,

I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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you are basing your claim off of yourself as one single human being. An RTP is based upon MILLIONS AND MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of data samples. comparing what you get as one person won't give any accurate idea at all. Big streamers LOSE ALOT. But they A. can afford 2. B. are offered EXCELLENT deals because of the players they bring to Casinos and the money they spend on them.  C. RTP is based on a per wager scenario. Not time played. It cannot be manipulated by the casino and is controlled by the game provider. 

Its all about luck...those big streamers have the money and the deposit bonuses to allow them to spend the time (the wagering) to hit big wins. At the end of the day it is luck and luck only based on whatever the RTP is. and every time you hit the spin button the odds are reset. so winning alot or losing alot means nothing. because some ppl will win alot and some will lose alot some may stay the same. it depends on the luck.

as far as your point to the live games. I believe it is because they don't make as much money from the live game providers as they do from slots providers and that would be my assumption.

 
Seems Roshstein (the crap in the hat) and his gang are always winning huge everyday with 100k wins, how do you explain this if the RTP is not somehow tweaked in their favor?

 
They must be rigged. Take Casino**ddy for example. Never show anything but skrill deposits etc. Yet this is good enough to say "hey we are not fake". So where are bank transactions?. Never shown. They ALWAYS win big. Around a year ago & even as recent as 1 month ago they have slagged off streamers spinning at 20 euro, 50 euro 100 euro etc. Basically calling them fake. They themselves used to spin at 5 euro on every stream like 6-8 months ago then suddenly this went up to 10 then 20 and today they are spinning at 400. What I have also noticed with these streamers in question is they will normally do a spin or a buy on a game. Then there will be a pause like they are waiting for something. Like a confirmation that their ID has been successfully added to the big win spin then boom, a massive hit. Another example is, the game mental. You can watch the biggest wins in the actual game. I checked it out when Casino**ddy had 1 massive win 1 week then again the following week. In the biggest wins on the game they were the only 2 massive wins in the whole month. There are millions of gamblers playing a game and not hitting these huge wins yet casino**ddy do it twice in a week. Not only mental, other games too. So my opinion on this whole thing is what has already been mentioned. ID, this unique players game ID just needs to be passed on to the provider by the casino or streamer. The streamer hits lets say 70k. All watchers of the stream as well as the ones who watch "big wins" think wow and deposit and play that same game. In no time that game has taken in 300k. Not bad to pay out 70k to get 300k. That is my theory on it all.

 
To my mind, i wouldn't be surprised if soon all these sponsored streams had to start carrying the "Paid Promotion" or "This Is An Advertisement" type banners, as they're never going to be banned, but i do think the bad press over an issue like gambling will force the streaming sites to do their usual minimal response and make them all start displaying banners at least.

As for how much the big sponsoreds seem to win all the time, i think alot of this is just confirmation bias, and they win/lose as much as anyone else - it's just they're putting the volume in and the excitement of high stakes wins  means viewers soon forget earlier losses - I've seen a fair few of them rinse through their sponsored reloads and then as soon as they hit a big bonus all of chat is whooping and cheering, and suddenly everyone forgets that's only actually like 50% back or something.

I think any wins these streamers get to keep from slot wins is probably irrelevant to them compared to their actual sponsored contracts.

 
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I havent posted here in a while, but i've been watching streamers for a long time now and I wanted to share my findings:

In the past few months Spinlife (formerly known as Daskelelele) has been hitting huge bonus hits (max wins on Rocket Reels, 14kx on Dead or alive 2 and numerous 3000x - 10kx on other slots) on a daily basis!

In comparison, I've also been watching other smaller streamers who stream for similar hours (6-8 hours a day) buying bonuses the whole session for smaller amounts and the max they get every day is maybe 1000x which seems much closer to my experience gambling.

The numbers just don't add up. It is literally impossible to be so lucky for so long.

The only conclusion that I come up to is that the big streamers just hit huge hits much much more frequently than small streamers and obviously, your everyday Joe Gambler.

Now, i've heard so many arguments that it's not legal and RTP can't be manipulated and regulation this and regulation that.

It's all bullshit. Much like anything else in the gambling industry, anything can be manipulated. And if you think otherwise, you're just gullible.

On my current casino, i've wagered around $70k in like 6 months playing 0.2$ bets and my max hit was 1250x (multiple times). Now that is 350k spins and also bonus buys. So am I so unlucky boo hoo? or is this whole thing just manipulated from start to end? Can Spinlife hit a basegame 4000x on Wanted dead or Alive on a casual 200 spin session since they're "Captains" and "so good at slots"? are they so lucky as to hit a max win on Rocket Reels followed the next day where they hit a 12000x on Das xBoot?

If luck is all that's in play here, they should stop gambling on slots and just buy lottety tickets to make millions on a weekly basis...

 
beetaillight said:
In the past few months Spinlife (formerly known as Daskelelele) has been hitting huge bonus hits (max wins on Rocket Reels, 14kx on Dead or alive 2 and numerous 3000x - 10kx on other slots) on a daily basis!
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And suddenly he wins 660k at mental. I got sick when I saw it, day after day I lose and most streamers all win. The fun part? He begs people to sign up trough his affiliate link, like 660k isn't enough. I would quit gambling if I won 660k. 

 
Svenix said:
And suddenly he wins 660k at mental. I got sick when I saw it, day after day I lose and most streamers all win. The fun part? He begs people to sign up trough his affiliate link, like 660k isn't enough. I would quit gambling if I won 660k. 
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One wasn’t clearly enough, they hit the second max win on Mental last week. 

 
my experience i almost hit over 1000x every weeks with 2-3 hour playing time each day.

i am just a slot lover not streamer, but i still end up losing overall in a long run.

what buzz me is those million dollar streamer like Roshtein, Trainswreckstv, Ayzee, are they real?

 
I need to throw my 2 cents in here as this topic has drawn in a fine crowd.

We are led to believe that when we click spin on a slot at any moment we are drawing from every possibility like a tombola. I guarantee this is not the case. Im not sure if its the providers end who is feeding us wins and loses to meet the RTP or if Casino's have the ability to reject wins from the providers etc but it's definitely predetermined and controlled. I've witnessed far too many dry spells for it to be plain bad luck.

I've said this before but Rngs are not needed at all to produce fair unmanipulated results. They merely have to have a server cycle through every possible outcome at lightspeed and the timing of the player pressing spin determines the result. This is closer to random then any algorithms can achieve.

 
Beetaillight talks a lot of sense imo. 

As for the streamers who win millions and are still hungry for sign ups, it's blatantly obvious they are full of shite.

I personally love watching Kim and Blanco but can't help but think even if it's real money what's the point. It doesn't really matter what they win and lose as they are all about affiliation links also. Blanco's win an Crazytime was lifechanging to most people but not them, i mean did they even buy anything? lol. It just went straight back into the pot to groom more sign ups.

 
Watching the streamer Dazza G  , he specialises playing the slot Bonanza  , the amount of Bonuses he gets per session heavily outweigh the ordinary player although they don't always pay  ,  but he hits at least 1 up to 5 or more in an hr ( no editing )   I did ask him how he gets that many and he admitted he does get a favourable R.T.P  ,  now i am no expert on these things but i know he is an affiliate with several casino's and i didn't think it was possible to be awarded such a thing  ,  his gameplay though on that slot and features have to be seen to be believed ..........       deffo something untoward going on and although i know it doesn't reflect the gameplay that others get it still amazes me that the slot's / R.T.P can be modified in such a way for anyone affiliated or not  , it's not a true reflection of how the slot plays and i just hope the people that follow and watch him realise that it's not the norm.    🙂

 
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