ban online casino streamers

Slotplayer said:
Talking about lack of research.... FOI and private Companies such as Sky Vegas do not mix. They don't have to provide you anything about reversals and I doubt the Gambling Commission has this kind of information to hand.

As to helping a vulnerable compulsive gambler.... there is plenty that they can do to help themselves and ideas have been given in this topic. How about it - take some of that advice and simply don't watch the streams or any online gambling stuff. It isn't difficult if you put your mind to it. It is one of the steps to recovery and plenty of streamers (including me) have said so both off and on stream.

No genuine streamer wants an addict to make a deposit but at the same time want to provide entertainment for those that control their gambling. Why should the latter suffer because of the former?
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Do you think you or any gambling streamer has any responsibility regarding problem compulsive gambling addition ?

Ive heard your feelings on what the addict should do, What are your responsibility's and what should you do in your opinion to help? 

Or do you think it has nothing to do with you ? 

 
Ban online casinostreaming said:
Do you think you or any gambling streamer has any responsibility regarding problem compulsive gambling addition ?

Ive heard your feelings on what the addict should do, What are your responsibility's and what should you do in your opinion to help? 

Or do you think it has nothing to do with you ? 
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I am guided by the ASA code of conduct and comply with that. I have the same responsibility that ITV has showing casino adverts.

And I say it again, a compulsive gambler should not be watching me. At least those watching me do it by choice rather than accidentally coming across it such as it happens with adverts on TV, billboards etc.

Gambling is legal. Affiliation is legal. Streaming is legal.

And I noticed you haven't answered why those that can control their gambling should suffer because people such as you can't control it and want it banned?

 
@Slotspinner give me a break, u dont care who deposits as long as u earn out it.

@Solutionnn people are entitled to their opinion, it is the responsible gambling section ffs

It would be extremely interesting if we done a public poll(not including all the sheep on this forum) on the subject asking whether they thought streamers were responsible or irresponsible.

A casino streamer  plays slots/casino games for hours and hours in front of  hundreds/thousands of viewers including potentially children and people with gambling addictions.

A casino streamer bets stakes of upto 2 grand(white rabbit)

A casino streamer relies on people losing money to generate income

A casino streamer reguarly describes their play as degen and tilting

A big streaming forum (casinogrounds) has made sure all their streamers are on at different times so most of the day is filled

@Slotplayer @Slotspinner are u going to argue that an enormous majority would not class you as irresponsible?

 
TommyBhoy said:
@Slotspinner give me a break, u dont care who deposits as long as u earn out it.

@Solutionnn people are entitled to their opinion, it is the responsible gambling section ffs

It would be extremely interesting if we done a public poll(not including all the sheep on this forum) on the subject asking whether they thought streamers were responsible or irresponsible.

A casino streamer  plays slots/casino games for hours and hours in front of  hundreds/thousands of viewers including potentially children and people with gambling addictions.

A casino streamer bets stakes of upto 2 grand(white rabbit)

A casino streamer relies on people losing money to generate income

A casino streamer reguarly describes their play as degen and tilting

A big streaming forum (casinogrounds) has made sure all their streamers are on at different times so most of the day is filled

@Slotplayer @Slotspinner are u going to argue that an enormous majority would not class you as irresponsible?
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My finances tell me I am a responsible gambler thank you very much and the public poll will agree if they have that knowledge.

Incidentally, I went through a bad spell earlier last year, so I took a few months break. That is what I recommend all gamblers do. I even put a casino account on "time out" live on stream. Responsible gambling enough for you?

 
Slotplayer said:
I am guided by the ASA code of conduct and comply with that. I have the same responsibility that ITV has showing casino adverts.

And I say it again, a compulsive gambler should not be watching me. At least those watching me do it by choice rather than accidentally coming across it such as it happens with adverts on TV, billboards etc.

Gambling is legal. Affiliation is legal. Streaming is legal.

And I noticed you haven't answered why those that can control their gambling should suffer because people such as you can't control it and want it banned?
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@Slotplayer to be honest i do hope they ban you as you have no idea the affects gambling issues have on Individuals and by your tone dont seem to care at all. 

What Casinos do you represent when you stream ?

 
Slotplayer said:
Of course I care.

From my blog:

http://www.slotplayers.co.uk/2017/04/14/taking-a-very-long-break-from-playing-slots/

Don't lecture me on responsible gambling please.
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Just read the piece thanks have saved it. Honestly if you have had a problem, playing slots is not a good idea. 

No gambling streamer is a responsible gambler, Put to the public to give there opinion they would think it is mad and irresponsible for a streamer to sit there for 5 hours and pump up to £1k - £2K a day into a casino to play slots and stream this for anyone to watch.  

 
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Lets get serious here, and face the facts people, how on earth do these streamers afford to play hundreds/thousands a day, near enough everyday on slots, and keep this going? Affiliation must be a profitable business. I mean how on earth would i, with the decent income i have, afford to deposit £1500-£2000 a day like a lot of these do, not a fucking chance. If these streamers are promoting responsible gambling, why are they doing ridiculous stakes, spending thousands which i'd love to know where the hell thats coming from, are these people rich, i mean you'd have to be unless you are earning your slot money from shit loads of affiliate earnings. This is a big income for these players, there is no way a man can deposit 2 grand a day 4/5 times a week playing slots, let's say 8 grand a week, times 52 weeks, thats £416,000 a year. RocknRolla, what the fuck is he earning to spend that much on gambling, shit the guy must be a millionaire, literally. Time to disclose i think, either affiliation is mega profitable for these people, which means i dont think they are too concerned with your gambling problems, or the casinos are feeding them money. 

 
I fully agree with the OP. Although I do like the streamers he mentions in his list, I do think that Affiliate marketing income generated from people's losses is not only immoral, but also should not be legal in the first place. I am baffled and shocked to see how many online casinos are opening on a daily basis - thousands literally. They are clearly doing well and I do not think they need any more support from third parties to increase their revenue and bring in the addicts. 

I am not against streaming. However, I think if one chooses to expose their gambling addiction for entertainment purposes, he or she should rely on the donations from those who are watching. No casinos should be promoted at all. I see every streamer pushing HighRoller at the moment, makes one wonder why. 

 
Slotplayer said:
A problem gambler should not be watching gambling streams or any gambling material full stop on Youtube or Twitch. And that is the crux of the matter. Don't blame streamers for your gambling problems. Seek professional help, exclude from casinos, delete your Youtube and Twitch accounts etc.

You must help yourself first and stop blaming others. At the end of the day, it was you that couldn't control your gambling and the majority of gamblers can control it despite what some make us belief.
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SlotPlayer, although I do respect you and have been following your posts on this forum for a while you need to get real mate. GamCare and UK GA representatives on BBC have publicly stated that world-wide studies have shown that around 97% of gambers who gamble on a regular basis cannot control their behaviour whilst playing slots or table games. (different story with poker). I am not a scientist nor a doctor, however, we activate all the wrong senses and reflexes in our brain whilst gambling, that's why we chase our losses and proceed to re-deposit without even thinking about what we could do with the money we have just lost or are about to lose. To say that the majority of gamblers can control their gambling is just incorrect. 

 
I tried reading most of this - there is a simple question (for which you will have your own answer).

Are you pro or anti internet sensorship?  Are you pro or anti choice?

I for one am absolutely against censorship of the internet.  As such, I am for choosing which sites I visit and when I visit them.  Consequently, it would then by MY CHOICE whether I want to watch the Bandit, or Nick etc etc or not.  I would , by the way, consider myself to be very weak indeed if my gambling habits were affected by their stream sessions.

While we are at it, why dont we ban rock n roll, or rap music, or porn, or anything related to sex, or all movies with violence, or all computer games with violence, or limit internet access to 7 minutes a day in case we see something that isnt all raindrops on roses, or ban all online materials that isn't geared towards our future Utopia - op is a loon - i think we are being trolled.

Pro choice, anti censorship, vive la internet.

Chow mein.

 
Ban online casinostreaming said:
Just read the piece thanks have saved it. Honestly if you have had a problem, playing slots is not a good idea. 

No gambling streamer is a responsible gambler, Put to the public to give there opinion they would think it is mad and irresponsible for a streamer to sit there for 5 hours and pump up to £1k - £2K a day into a casino to play slots and stream this for anyone to watch.  
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Because I took a break, is exactly why I don't have a problem gambling. If I was a problem gambler I would have dipped into my savings, sold some of my shares etc. to fund the habit. But I didn't and I won't.

And not every streamer pumps in £1k - £2k a day. Last week, I put in £300 and made £800 which paid for this week's £300 deposit that I this week turned into a £100 profit. So now I have £900 which at worse will last me another 3 streams. My next stream is not until next week because I have a job to go to. So that will be £300 spent in 3 weeks assuming the £900 goes next week.

 
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Ziggy said:
SlotPlayer, although I do respect you and have been following your posts on this forum for a while you need to get real mate. GamCare and UK GA representatives on BBC have publicly stated that world-wide studies have shown that around 97% of gambers who gamble on a regular basis cannot control their behaviour whilst playing slots or table games. (different story with poker). I am not a scientist nor a doctor, however, we activate all the wrong senses and reflexes in our brain whilst gambling, that's why we chase our losses and proceed to re-deposit without even thinking about what we could do with the money we have just lost or are about to lose. To say that the majority of gamblers can control their gambling is just incorrect. 
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I am under no illusion that gambling can be addictive and that it can lead to all sort of problems. That is why you should make use of the tools available, such as deposit limits, time limits etc.

But why the streamers are being blamed for this is beyond me. Banning streamers is not the solution. It is not going to solve the gambling problems that do exist. 

 
I agree with the original poster.  I have watched many hours of these gambling streams & from what I gather this is a collusive effort to prey & profit on people (of all ages, including children as Twitch is primarily marketed as a gaming site geared towards teenagers & young adults) with gambling disorders.  Not only is this reprehensible on a moral level but it is also very likely illegal in many jurisdictions.  It is deceptive advertising & has lead & will lead to serious repercussions in peoples' lives.  In a legal sense, blame is not & and should never placed on the person who has been the victim of a confidence or advertising scam.  "They should have known better" is not a valid legal defense & would be laughed out of not only a courtroom but also the court of public opinion.

I think it is obvious why so many of these streamers have moved to Malta.  Many, many of these online casinos are based out of Malta.  I even think a lot of these streamers live in the same house or complex.  I would hope that they understand that this method of earning money that they have chosen is extremely tenuous at best and have made plans to further their careers in other ways once they are no longer allowed to broadcast.

As soon as a major news organization picks up & runs with this story, this ride will be over.  Youtube and Twitch do not earn enough money from casino affiliate marketers to justify the bad press.

 
I do not understand how you can quantify losses or gains when much of the money being wagered is not the streamers' own money, but instead "bonus offers" -- "money" that the casino gives to streamers that advertise for them as affiliates so that they can more comfortably sustain their losses & continue advertising.  The average player is not offered 100%, 200%, 300% bonuses on every single one of their deposits.  There is a streamer, Shirox1980, who regularly deposits 50 euros and receives a 50 euro "matching bonus" from the casino -- sometimes ten times in a single session.  He bets 5 euro a spin!  How is this not deceptive?

Furthermore, these concerns are esoteric to the casual viewer.  Most people, without being immersed in casino culture, do not understand what "bonus money" is, or affiliates are, or any other industry insider terms that we use & are comfortable with.  To most people who see a stream, they see a person playing with hundreds if not thousands of dollars, which may or may not be their own money, cheered on by tens if not hundreds of regulars in their chats.  This gives a completely unrealistic view of what gambling is & the level of acceptance that the regulars give in the chat is quite frankly an echo chamber that is glorifying and reinforcing self-destructive behavior.  
 

 
Most bonuses are ev- and ensure extended play time. There have been many a time where playing with a bonus has resulted in no cash out when if played without it, it would have done.

It is not always benficial playing with a bonus.

 
nomoregamblingstreams said:
 There is a streamer, Shirox1980, who regularly deposits 50 euros and receives a 50 euro "matching bonus" from the casino -- sometimes ten times in a single session.  He bets 5 euro a spin!  How is this not deceptive?


 
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It's not deceptive because he does it in front of everyone and tells them what he is doing

I would say almost all viewers of most of the streamers know exactly how bonus money, wagering requirements etc work.

I am not here to say slots are not problematic

They can, and will, take every penny from you if you are not careful, cash out when ahead and don't chase elusive bonuses

 going on a moral crusade against streamers seems to be sour grapes to be honest,

You probably lost a lot gambling and are jealous of a few who have managed to make it work for them.

 
Mhmm.  And would you also defend how he has been starting his streams with Player Unknown's Battlegrounds, an incredibly popular game amongst young people currently, and then switching over to slots after a couple of hours?  Or do you think that's completely innocent?

"...[the] few who have managed to make it work for them" have done so by cynical exploitation.  I have no sympathy for people who take advantage of others' weakness for their own gain & hope that as more and more light gets given to this serious problem (as it will, as mainstream media is already discussing how IAP "loot boxes" are similar to gambling, & many countries are taking steps to prevent them) that it will become a thing of the past.

The recent Youtube bannings of popular casino advertisers is not going to be the end of the backlash.

 
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Wow this is a good thread, bringing out a very good subject!

My thoughts of streamers are like this.

1. They often want to view themself as a ”hobby” player, when in fact they are a huge part of a multibillion industry.

they are very sensitive and fast to ”protect” there brand.. they are also very fast to explain that they dont earn almost anything on gambling from affiliates deal.. there arent any transparancy... they hide Behind the ” contract”.

also very fast to explain that they spend almost full time work for us viewers, editing playing etc.

i find it fascinating that they work for free.

2. The fact that casinoground is a multimillion company and the streamers dont get there share is also amazing... since they dont as they claim dont get almost anything...

3. Casinoground is a smart way to gather a group of popular apparantly hard working and apparantly almost free working streamers... 

4. Streamers are very fast on making sure that they are not considered big affiliates. Since they Keep stating that they dont earn anything from there deals.

5. Streamers are very fast on bashing other streamers that dont belong to casinogrounds, nickslots are like on a crusade. Calling them fake streamers. I can understand that since they apparantly dont earn anything themselfs from affiliate deals..

6. Streamers are like the Gun industry , they dont want any responsibility on What influence they have on the gambling problem.. and why should they?? They dont earn anything , they work fulltime for free on there ”hobby”

7. There are some streamers ”Rocknrolla that Seems honest, 

the rest is tbh just pushing the industry while apparantly not earning anything themself?

 
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