Lightning Roulette, yeah keep playing it
- Thread starter Kreezymind
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Kreezymind
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Oh btw, for all the doubters and saying oh it can happen once in a lifetime etc etc.
I found a second video, its just a joke and they are just scamming people legally.
This is also an Evolution Gaming "roulette wheel" @Evolution Gaming Official
I found a second video, its just a joke and they are just scamming people legally.
This is also an Evolution Gaming "roulette wheel" @Evolution Gaming Official
Kreezymind
New member
Offcourse, people will still be playing these rigged games, even after looking at the obvious evidence, they still will have a go. But if this post even makes 1 person not play these games anymore its a win. A big middle finger for @Evolution Gaming Official making it look fairJeroen83 said:
dirtystack
New member
Another circle jerk echo chamber
Kreezymind
New member
Yeah I saw this aswell lol, just look how it skips the tier section and comes to a stop instantly lol.
Rolla plays too aggresive tho, but good content.
Kreezymind
New member
Yeah agreed lol, its the gambler in him and the greedynessJeroen83 said:
I just wonder why he keeps playing this lightning bs when he knows its rigged.
joshnadin
New member
Hey, ex croupier with 10+ years experience in the gaming industry here..
So, I'm positively going to tell you that there are 100% not magnets, and no, I do not need to get myself checked.
Some funky things happen on the roulette wheel all the time, and they look super unnatural and seem to defy the laws of physics. But, they are in fact perfectly natural and normal.
The way these auto roulette wheels work is pressurised air. You can hear the air grabbing the ball before every spin. It's the exact same technology you will find in the majority of land based casinos that offer auto-roulette without a croupier spinning the ball. But, I've seen just as funky things happen, if not more funky on a regular, perfectly balanced roulette wheel with a croupier spinning the ball.
When you introduce a bouncy roulette ball spinning at high velocity, dropping into a wheel spinning the opposite direction, seemingly strange things happen. I would see something that seemed to defy physics at least once every shift.
I would be more inclined to say that the live games are rigged if things like this didn't happen from time to time.
You've also got to remember that whatever result was from the spin that looks strange, is that someone playing at the time likely benefited from it, even if you did not.
Again, it's time to take off the tin foil hats and screaming that everything is rigged without any evidence or data to backup your claims. We've gone into detail time and time again as to why casinos and game providers don't need to do this, and it would be more harmful than beneficial to them.
Stevej
New member
Well, you might be overstating a little? I’ve played roulette in an landbased casino many years. I’ve never seen the ball defying gravity. It can bounce like crazy but it always lands.Hey, ex croupier with 10+ years experience in the gaming industry here..
So, I'm positively going to tell you that there are 100% not magnets, and no, I do not need to get myself checked.
Some funky things happen on the roulette wheel all the time, and they look super unnatural and seem to defy the laws of physics. But, they are in fact perfectly natural and normal.
The way these auto roulette wheels work is pressurised air. You can hear the air grabbing the ball before every spin. It's the exact same technology you will find in the majority of land based casinos that offer auto-roulette without a croupier spinning the ball. But, I've seen just as funky things happen, if not more funky on a regular, perfectly balanced roulette wheel with a croupier spinning the ball.
When you introduce a bouncy roulette ball spinning at high velocity, dropping into a wheel spinning the opposite direction, seemingly strange things happen. I would see something that seemed to defy physics at least once every shift.
I would be more inclined to say that the live games are rigged if things like this didn't happen from time to time.
You've also got to remember that whatever result was from the spin that looks strange, is that someone playing at the time likely benefited from it, even if you did not.
Again, it's time to take off the tin foil hats and screaming that everything is rigged without any evidence or data to backup your claims. We've gone into detail time and time again as to why casinos and game providers don't need to do this, and it would be more harmful than beneficial to them.
I’m not screaming now that these machines are rigged, but.. Did you watch the video? There’s absolutely no other possibility that some force is pushing the ball from slots 14 and 20 so it stays in the middle. Over a minute - not second, or two, but a minute. The ball can’t land between the numbers. If there was some area on the wheel that ball would stay there, it was fixed immediately.
Kreezymind
New member
Oh here we go lol, i was waiting for the croupier with the tens of years of experience that has seen it all happen. Let me ask you this: since you've experienced it all. Have you ever, EVER seen this ( the video ) happen in an landbased casino, or a roulette machine on pressurized air? I'm sure you haven't.Hey, ex croupier with 10+ years experience in the gaming industry here..
So, I'm positively going to tell you that there are 100% not magnets, and no, I do not need to get myself checked.
Some funky things happen on the roulette wheel all the time, and they look super unnatural and seem to defy the laws of physics. But, they are in fact perfectly natural and normal.
The way these auto roulette wheels work is pressurised air. You can hear the air grabbing the ball before every spin. It's the exact same technology you will find in the majority of land based casinos that offer auto-roulette without a croupier spinning the ball. But, I've seen just as funky things happen, if not more funky on a regular, perfectly balanced roulette wheel with a croupier spinning the ball.
When you introduce a bouncy roulette ball spinning at high velocity, dropping into a wheel spinning the opposite direction, seemingly strange things happen. I would see something that seemed to defy physics at least once every shift.
I would be more inclined to say that the live games are rigged if things like this didn't happen from time to time.
You've also got to remember that whatever result was from the spin that looks strange, is that someone playing at the time likely benefited from it, even if you did not.
Again, it's time to take off the tin foil hats and screaming that everything is rigged without any evidence or data to backup your claims. We've gone into detail time and time again as to why casinos and game providers don't need to do this, and it would be more harmful than beneficial to them.
Yeah of course the ball can bounce in unlogical ways with that speed hitting the wheel, im not doubting that. But this sir, makes no sense at all and is unexplainable. Of course i know these machine work on air, I've seen loads and i also have 15+ years of experience on roulette and the wheels. But this is new for me.
In the video you also see the ball stuck between the numbers, and after the casino was made aware of it, probably by the croupier, the ball was released. So they can control and do what they like whenever they want. Lets turn it around and prove to me magnets or some other kind of dodgy thing is not involved here?
Also you suggest that someone probably benifited from the result, yeah probably someone who was playing with a few bucks instead of the thousands that where betted on the other numbers, You just dont know and assume that.
If i had the raw evidence this was obviously rigged, you think i would be posting this here on a casino forum? I would be in court. As i dont have it, im here to warn others to not play these type of games as there is something not right here and definitly fishy and altered. That has nothing to do with tin foil hats and conspiracy's.
If you think everything in the world is fair, you should wake up. This world is all about money and people and compagny's go to great lenghts to get it.
Stevej
New member
And with all respect, if you had worked in a gaming industry your whole life, that doesn’t help that much.
Again I’m not saying that these games are rigged cause everybody hates that, but gaming industry probably changes all the time. The business is tough and gambling providers want to be like Tesla. Probably roulette wheels were different 20 years ago. You haven’t designed these modern games. You have no idea what’s happening there. You don’t have to know it. In live casino, I bet hosts agree MDA for the games, though probably they don’t know all the techinal details of the games, cause they don’t need to.
I have also 15 years of experience from the gaming industry as a player. It has changed a lot. The weirdest things have happened last years.
joshnadin
New member
Sure, this specific scenario may be extremely rare, but not impossible. But 'strange' things happen far more often than you would think.
Of course there is the possibility that the ball just happened to land there between the numbers and get stuck.
The ball physically can land in-between the numbers. Moreover, centrifugal force with the wheel spinning makes it far more likely to stay in place.
Go ahead a flip a coin an infinite number of times, even though its a million to one shot, you will eventually get a result that is neither heads, nor tails, because the coin will land directly on its side without falling over. It's the same principal. Extremely unlikely, but, these things happen when you do something over, and over again enough times.
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The most important part though, is that the casino simply doesn't give a fuck where the ball lands.
They don't care how much or how little they pay out over a particular spin. Because over the lifetime of the game, they will profit.
Why would they manipulate it? No matter what result they manipulate, they will end up paying someone out for that spin.
Have I seen this specific scenario? Yes, actually.
The ball has landed directly between two numbers. I was perplexed, asked the floor manager what to do, and it was just a no-spin. He said this without a second thought and just briefly laughed.
I've seen things that are even stranger than this. So, you can not be 'sure' that I, or anyone else hasn't. No matter how unlikely.
Yes? Activating the pressurised air will release the ball from the position it is stuck in? I don't see the point you're making?
I'm not suggesting that someone probably benefited from it. I'm certain someone benefited from it.
So you're saying that over all the online casino's that use Evolution as a provider, and all the players playing at any particular moment in time, they calculate which result is going to pay out the least and 'rig' it accordingly?
I don't even want to get started on that, as this reply is long enough already. But please, just apply a little logic and common sense. It would be super easy to prove that if it was the case. The regulatory bodies regularly evaluate things like this to ensure fairness. Not to mention the logistics of how these games actually operate and being able to implement that over a spin-by-spin basis would be insane.
No, you don't have any evidence, and you nor anyone else will never have it. Because it's simply not rigged.
If you can't understand simple maths and probability, then that's your issue and you shouldn't be playing these games. Every one of your theories, because that's all they are, are completely unfounded. If you want the data sample, go and ask the providers for them, they will happily give it to you, or even better, conduct an experiment yourself to put what you claim to the test.
No one ever said that I think everything in the world is fair. I know that better than most. But I also know that these live games from reputable operators are positively not influenced in any way. That's because again, they don't need to be. The amount of profit the generate operating within the advertised RTP is astronomical enough already.
It doesn't help much?
Okay, so the next time you want expert advice on how something operates in any niche, I would recommend that you go for someone with no industry experience or knowledge in the field. When you want advice on how to get your car repaired, don't go to the mechanic with years of experience.
Of course the gaming industry changes all the time. Just like any industry, it has to change and evolve to keep up and stay relevant. Again, I don't see what this adds to your statement.
Actually, I regularly contribute to game design for a number of different providers as a consultant. For me to be able to perform my role, I have to have an extremely thorough understanding of how everything in the games operate.
I am both a heavy gambler as well as having the perspective from the other side of the table. Believe me when I say I would be the first person to post all over the internet, and report to the gaming commission and regulators, to expose anything shady, untoward or simply unfair that I came across. Even if I had a suspicion, I would call it out.
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I can reply to each and every one of your replies with some sound logic, some simple maths and probability, and some common sense.
If you genuinely think that these games, or any others are manipulated in any way, you should file a report with the MGA, the UKGC and every other reputable authority. They will conduct a thorough investigation if you can provide any basis on why you believe the games are manipulated and provide you with the outcome of the investigation. Until that point, it's like banging my head against the wall.
Kreezymind
New member
Im glad you have an answer for everything and think everything is ok and normal. No problem keep thinking that, i even advise you to keep playing these "fair" games. People like you keep these thieves operating and will never see the truth.Sure, this specific scenario may be extremely rare, but not impossible. But 'strange' things happen far more often than you would think.
Of course there is the possibility that the ball just happened to land there between the numbers and get stuck.
The ball physically can land in-between the numbers. Moreover, centrifugal force with the wheel spinning makes it far more likely to stay in place.
Go ahead a flip a coin an infinite number of times, even though its a million to one shot, you will eventually get a result that is neither heads, nor tails, because the coin will land directly on its side without falling over. It's the same principal. Extremely unlikely, but, these things happen when you do something over, and over again enough times.
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The most important part though, is that the casino simply doesn't give a fuck where the ball lands.
They don't care how much or how little they pay out over a particular spin. Because over the lifetime of the game, they will profit.
Why would they manipulate it? No matter what result they manipulate, they will end up paying someone out for that spin.
Have I seen this specific scenario? Yes, actually.
The ball has landed directly between two numbers. I was perplexed, asked the floor manager what to do, and it was just a no-spin. He said this without a second thought and just briefly laughed.
I've seen things that are even stranger than this. So, you can not be 'sure' that I, or anyone else hasn't. No matter how unlikely.
Yes? Activating the pressurised air will release the ball from the position it is stuck in? I don't see the point you're making?
I'm not suggesting that someone probably benefited from it. I'm certain someone benefited from it.
So you're saying that over all the online casino's that use Evolution as a provider, and all the players playing at any particular moment in time, they calculate which result is going to pay out the least and 'rig' it accordingly?
I don't even want to get started on that, as this reply is long enough already. But please, just apply a little logic and common sense. It would be super easy to prove that if it was the case. The regulatory bodies regularly evaluate things like this to ensure fairness. Not to mention the logistics of how these games actually operate and being able to implement that over a spin-by-spin basis would be insane.
No, you don't have any evidence, and you nor anyone else will never have it. Because it's simply not rigged.
If you can't understand simple maths and probability, then that's your issue and you shouldn't be playing these games. Every one of your theories, because that's all they are, are completely unfounded. If you want the data sample, go and ask the providers for them, they will happily give it to you, or even better, conduct an experiment yourself to put what you claim to the test.
No one ever said that I think everything in the world is fair. I know that better than most. But I also know that these live games from reputable operators are positively not influenced in any way. That's because again, they don't need to be. The amount of profit the generate operating within the advertised RTP is astronomical enough already.
It doesn't help much?
Okay, so the next time you want expert advice on how something operates in any niche, I would recommend that you go for someone with no industry experience or knowledge in the field. When you want advice on how to get your car repaired, don't go to the mechanic with years of experience.
Of course the gaming industry changes all the time. Just like any industry, it has to change and evolve to keep up and stay relevant. Again, I don't see what this adds to your statement.
Actually, I regularly contribute to game design for a number of different providers as a consultant. For me to be able to perform my role, I have to have an extremely thorough understanding of how everything in the games operate.
I am both a heavy gambler as well as having the perspective from the other side of the table. Believe me when I say I would be the first person to post all over the internet, and report to the gaming commission and regulators, to expose anything shady, untoward or simply unfair that I came across. Even if I had a suspicion, I would call it out.
--
I can reply to each and every one of your replies with some sound logic, some simple maths and probability, and some common sense.
If you genuinely think that these games, or any others are manipulated in any way, you should file a report with the MGA, the UKGC and every other reputable authority. They will conduct a thorough investigation if you can provide any basis on why you believe the games are manipulated and provide you with the outcome of the investigation. Until that point, it's like banging my head against the wall.
Im not going to reply to all your "thoughts" as most of it is bs anyway, one thing stood out tho for me was that you where saying that why would they rig the game as they make money anyway on every spin and someone probably would have benefited from it. How can you know that? Do you have that data somewhere? The difference in this case is that multipliers are in effect, which can go up to 500x as you know. That changes the game completely if you compare it to landbase roulette machines which dont have these multipliers. Thats why you dont see balls stuck in between numbers like in these 2 cases. I seriously doubt this has ever happened in a landbase casino where the top of the roulette machine was open.
Also if they have data and know how much bets where placed on a number each round, which they have! Lets say for example the total amount on number 1 was 100k and the multiplier was 500x. Do the math. You seriously think that is gonna happen? yeah, maybe once on a loong loong time to keep the players playing and make it seem its legit. Before this is even close to happening the casino already has this "loss" covered. If this happened on a regular base they would be out of business.
They know exactly what was bet, which number gives them the most profit and the most loss. U think we live in 1930? wake up son. You have absolutely no idea what goes on in that little studio in Malta or Latvia, neither does the croupiers working there. If you are under the assumption nobody is monitoring these tables and can intervene when needed you seriously are sleeping.
So to answer your question why would they rig it while they make money anyway? because they want MORE and MORE. Its called greed, human nature and getting away with it. And people trying to explain it because it can happen.
Im not even going to go in the MGA, UKCG and the audit story, thats all assumptions you are making. Or did you have experience in that aswell? and witnessed an audit or did one yourself. Probably not, you can never say for sure that everything goes by the book, because millions and millions of euros/dollars or whatever is involved here.
You ever wondered why these auto roulette tables have an RTP? and the landbase roulette wheels with an open top and croupiers dont? Guess not.
Stevej
New member
@joshnadinI think you’re either super naive or trying to save somebody’s ass.
The rotating angle and the speed is too slow for holding that ball for one minute on that place. It’s against the physics.
Little off topic, about Evolution and my favorite game Crazy Time: I showed in an another post that Crazy Time has a motor/some breaking system by doing a simple javascript based simulator for that game. It simulates 1000 billion (or more) spins of that game. I compared the variance of certain situations. You can search it on this forum and I can send the updated version of the code when I have some time to work on it.
The whole live casino of Evolution gaming is manipulated, but probably it’s legal, don’t know about that. When they release a new game, they can’t perfectly know how it works, how popular it will be, how people will play the game. By ”rigging” the game they can also tweak the game later on. I can find a million good reason to add magnets, motors, whatever on these games.
These games generates the amounts of money that’s never seen before by a game provider. They want to make better and better results every Q. This is the reason for rigging everything. Full control, endless growing potential.
The rotating angle and the speed is too slow for holding that ball for one minute on that place. It’s against the physics.
Little off topic, about Evolution and my favorite game Crazy Time: I showed in an another post that Crazy Time has a motor/some breaking system by doing a simple javascript based simulator for that game. It simulates 1000 billion (or more) spins of that game. I compared the variance of certain situations. You can search it on this forum and I can send the updated version of the code when I have some time to work on it.
The whole live casino of Evolution gaming is manipulated, but probably it’s legal, don’t know about that. When they release a new game, they can’t perfectly know how it works, how popular it will be, how people will play the game. By ”rigging” the game they can also tweak the game later on. I can find a million good reason to add magnets, motors, whatever on these games.
These games generates the amounts of money that’s never seen before by a game provider. They want to make better and better results every Q. This is the reason for rigging everything. Full control, endless growing potential.
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joshnadin
New member
A little logic applied and you spit your dummy out, huh?
You do realise that it's the online casino that pays out, and not the provider, right?
So, if what you're saying could potentially happen, is happening, that would leave drastic differences in profit/loss for every single online casino using Evo as a provider. So, do they even it out and give every casino a 'fair share' of the rigging? Or, what?
The more you look into it as a possibility, the more and more ridiculous it becomes.
Again, there is no such thing as a specific number that is the best theoretical outcome for profit or loss as it's not the provider paying out. Each individual online casino using Evo for that spin will differ on which number would be the most profitable or the biggest loss depending on what numbers the players at that particular casino are betting on. So again, logic applied, and your theory is redundant.
Yes, I do have experience with the auditing process.
The games undergo thorough vetting and auditing before release, and during the life cycle of the game.
Are you serious?
This just shows how much you don't actually understand RTP, or anything to do with what you're talking about.
Of fucking course land based casinos have, and advertise RTP! It's actually a legal requirement for them to display the RTP and house edge of each game clearly on a leaflet readily available inside the casino premises, usually located by the cash desk.
I can't even continue to try and have an intelligent debate with you when you're under the assumption that a land based casino game 'doesn't have an RTP'.
Neither pal! I just use a bit of logic and common sense! You should take off the tin foil hat and try it sometime. It's great!
Actually, no. It's not.
Super unlikely. But not 'against the physics'.
I may be interested in your data sample and be willing to discuss it, if the data was independently verified, which it is not. It's a pet project of someone who is bias toward one scenario.
But you've just answered your own question as to why they really, really don't need to manipulate or 'rig' the games. They already generate a ridiculous amount of money. Do you think they would be willing to risk that by getting caught, and putting their whole brand and reputation at risk? It's not good business, and believe me, these providers and casinos know all about good business and how to make money.
Stevej
New member
I’ll come back to this as soon as I have time to update the code. I have also collected about 500k spins data of CT. I’m really interested in these wheel games and how they work. Let’s discuss about it later then.
A little logic applied and you spit your dummy out, huh?
You do realise that it's the online casino that pays out, and not the provider, right?
So, if what you're saying could potentially happen, is happening, that would leave drastic differences in profit/loss for every single online casino using Evo as a provider. So, do they even it out and give every casino a 'fair share' of the rigging? Or, what?
The more you look into it as a possibility, the more and more ridiculous it becomes.
Again, there is no such thing as a specific number that is the best theoretical outcome for profit or loss as it's not the provider paying out. Each individual online casino using Evo for that spin will differ on which number would be the most profitable or the biggest loss depending on what numbers the players at that particular casino are betting on. So again, logic applied, and your theory is redundant.
Yes, I do have experience with the auditing process.
The games undergo thorough vetting and auditing before release, and during the life cycle of the game.
Are you serious?
This just shows how much you don't actually understand RTP, or anything to do with what you're talking about.
Of fucking course land based casinos have, and advertise RTP! It's actually a legal requirement for them to display the RTP and house edge of each game clearly on a leaflet readily available inside the casino premises, usually located by the cash desk.
I can't even continue to try and have an intelligent debate with you when you're under the assumption that a land based casino game 'doesn't have an RTP'.
Neither pal! I just use a bit of logic and common sense! You should take off the tin foil hat and try it sometime. It's great!
Actually, no. It's not.
Super unlikely. But not 'against the physics'.
I may be interested in your data sample and be willing to discuss it, if the data was independently verified, which it is not. It's a pet project of someone who is bias toward one scenario.
But you've just answered your own question as to why they really, really don't need to manipulate or 'rig' the games. They already generate a ridiculous amount of money. Do you think they would be willing to risk that by getting caught, and putting their whole brand and reputation at risk? It's not good business, and believe me, these providers and casinos know all about good business and how to make money.
I think you don’t realise the whole picture of this rigging thing. The biggest benefit by manipulating the games is that they can affect how much people will deposit on casinos and the game. Lots of people deposits way more especially in these wheel games what they can afford to. It’s absolutely by far the most popular game of Evolution. That’s how they became a billion dollar company.
Many people think that ”oh it’s so cool and nice design and everything” and that’s why Crazy Time is so popular, but no. It’s so popular because it pays big and you see the history of spins. You know what happened there yesterday or an hour ago. Think about it for a while.
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joshnadin
New member
Sure! I'm actually looking forward to seeing the data.
I've got to give you credit that you are collecting a sample and looking at it somewhat objectively too.
Okay, but then people also regularly deposit and lose way more than they can afford to do on sports betting, slots, bingo, poker, and many other game types. Yes, it is the most popular product at the moment. I get many other providers looking for my consulting services asking how they can compete with Evo and make something like CT as they all realise how much of a cash cow it is. My general response is that for the money it will take to create, it won't be able to compete in the market as Evo dominate it, so don't bother. But, it honestly isn't rigged or manipulated.
As a business, evaluating the levels of risk is essential. If everything is not 100% above board, then the risk is that your brand will lose its licence, never be able to trade again, have to refund millions upon millions in wagers, pay millions upon millions again in fines, and lose all confidence with its players and shareholders. It's not logical to put an already extremely profitable business at risk of bankruptcy and criminal proceedings for some extra profit.
Evolution spends an amount you wouldn't believe to ensure that all of their live games are completely above board and nobody can ever turn around and have a legitimate case against them for manipulation. One of the top expenses, if not the top, for them year on year, is for the compliance and risk department. They don't want to get it wrong, because they understand the consequences of getting it wrong, intentionally, or unintentionally.
Evolution became a billion dollar company because that have invested a lot of money, a lot of hours, marketed effectively, offered unique products, been the first to market with those products, have a fantastic understanding of the gambling industry, have some extremely intelligent people working for them, plus many other factors. All it would take it one disgruntled employee, to blow the whistle. One employee who knows how much financial gain they could make from exposing them. There hasn't been and there never will be as everything is legit. As the largest and most popular provider out there, they are under the spotlight more than anyone else when it comes to compliance.
Stevej
New member
Yes, I agree. They have smart people, no doubt about it.
I’ll show you some data so when can continue discussing.
dirtystack
New member
@joshnadin good luck mate. I can't stomach how SteveJ will state things as fact when he really has no clue.
As for Live Casinos online:
I have a feeling Pragmatic is going to slowly take some of Evolutions live casino market share - their offering is good and only getting better,
If Pragmatic can emulate the success they have had in the last couple of years with slots then they may even eclipse Evolution.
Also, lol to the guy who said there is no RTP in landbased casinos, says it all you need to know about the minds involved in this circle jerk.
As for Live Casinos online:
I have a feeling Pragmatic is going to slowly take some of Evolutions live casino market share - their offering is good and only getting better,
If Pragmatic can emulate the success they have had in the last couple of years with slots then they may even eclipse Evolution.
Also, lol to the guy who said there is no RTP in landbased casinos, says it all you need to know about the minds involved in this circle jerk.
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