joshnadin
New member
"Cash change! £500 for a stack of ponies! I mean, one mouse! Do you have your player rewards card with you please, Sir?"
Lightning Roulette, yeah keep playing it
- Thread starter Kreezymind
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Stevej
New member
More good Evo stuff here:
And interesting real life experiment (with small sample size though):
(link removed. regards, mod.)
No facts but it’s too weird stuff. Kindly asking game providers to redesign the roulette wheels - but probably they don’t want to.
And interesting real life experiment (with small sample size though):
(link removed. regards, mod.)
No facts but it’s too weird stuff. Kindly asking game providers to redesign the roulette wheels - but probably they don’t want to.
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joshnadin
New member
Aww! What are you getting emotional for, Jeroen?Jeroen83 said:
Have I hurt your feelings with my application of logic?
I know you don't like me. I like you though! You're a consistent source of amusement.
It's okay that my contributions bother you as you can't argue with them and they keep making you look stupid. You're doing a good enough job of that yourself though, buddy!
Translation:@joshnadin thinks the roulette is not rigged in video starting at 1:50. Things just happen...
"I've seen a video of something online, about a topic I know nothing at all about, and using that as undeniable proof that something fits my narrative. Anyone that comes to a reasonable explanation is incorrect!"
Kreezymind
New member
This video doesnt seem off to me tho, the only thing i am curious about is how the ball got stuck, id like to see the spin and it actually getting stuck. All the other examples are just typical Evo spins, the ball bounces around pretty much every direction due to the edges it lands on. They have some tables where they show u the replay pretty anoying but legal...
The wheel they are using at Instant Roulette doesnt have those "edges" and the ball doesnt jump around as much, big difference there.
Stevej
New member
Guys did you read the real life roulette experiment? It’s in my previous post. I think the result is weird. Even though the experiment was only 14 days, all the results were heavily below that 2,7% house edge. There wasn’t a single day over that house edge.
I’m happily retired from all these games. I’ve lost my faith in the whole casino business.
I’m happily retired from all these games. I’ve lost my faith in the whole casino business.
joshnadin
New member
14 days from one single player is absolutely nowhere near a large enough sample size to determine any kind of RTP for any game.
The theoretical RTP is calculated over millions and millions of game results, across every single player playing that specific game.
If the person in question had been playing roulette for 6 months, consistently, and he didn't get any results over the stated RTP or his overall RTP was not within a very close margin, then it may be weird.
Stevej
New member
Yes, of course.
But did you read my comment? On those 14 days he didn’t get a single session over that house edge. All below it. That’s weird, not the rtp of the experiment.
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joshnadin
New member
Yes, I did.
Why? It is that hard to believe you can go 14 days playing roulette and get unlucky?
I can personally say that I've had periods of time where my RTP across games has been far, far less than the stated game RTP for much longer than 14 days. I've also had periods where I seem to keep hitting literally everything I touch and my RTP has been far, far in excess of what is expected for more than 14 days.
It's not at all weird, because the sample size is absolutely tiny, and only incudes a single persons perspective and data. Another player, playing different numbers, for the same period of time, on the exact same game, could have been well in excess of the expected RTP.
But what's important, is that you need to include every single players RTP, over a sustained period of time to get anything close to an accurate reflection.
So you think it's not rigged?Translation:
"I've seen a video of something online, about a topic I know nothing at all about, and using that as undeniable proof that something fits my narrative. Anyone that comes to a reasonable explanation is incorrect!"
joshnadin
New member
I don't think it's not rigged. I fully well know it's not rigged.
It's mathematically impossible to be rigged.
We've already established with Steve that even his own independent data shows that the games are paying out exactly in line with what the expected RTP is. If a game is paying out exactly as is advertised, how can the house be applying any kind of further unfair advantage, apart from what is already being advertised as the house edge?
How are you so unable to look at a video of something happening that is out of the ordinary and just start screaming that everything is rigged, without applying some actual, logical thought process to what you're saying? I don't know why I have to keep telling you that if you do something over, and over again enough times, you are going to experience bizarre results. But that doesn't mean that something is 'rigged', whatever your thought process of 'rigged' actually is.
I meant the specific roulette wheel at 1:50 in the video. So you know well that is not rigged. Good. I trust you.I don't think it's not rigged. I fully well know it's not rigged.
It's mathematically impossible to be rigged.
We've already established with Steve that even his own independent data shows that the games are paying out exactly in line with what the expected RTP is. If a game is paying out exactly as is advertised, how can the house be applying any kind of further unfair advantage, apart from what is already being advertised as the house edge?
How are you so unable to look at a video of something happening that is out of the ordinary and just start screaming that everything is rigged, without applying some actual, logical thought process to what you're saying? I don't know why I have to keep telling you that if you do something over, and over again enough times, you are going to experience bizarre results. But that doesn't mean that something is 'rigged', whatever your thought process of 'rigged' actually is.
Stevej
New member
Like I said the thing with rigging isn’t to manipulate the rtp (or I don’t know but probably they would get caught?)I don't think it's not rigged. I fully well know it's not rigged.
It's mathematically impossible to be rigged.
We've already established with Steve that even his own independent data shows that the games are paying out exactly in line with what the expected RTP is. If a game is paying out exactly as is advertised, how can the house be applying any kind of further unfair advantage, apart from what is already being advertised as the house edge?
How are you so unable to look at a video of something happening that is out of the ordinary and just start screaming that everything is rigged, without applying some actual, logical thought process to what you're saying? I don't know why I have to keep telling you that if you do something over, and over again enough times, you are going to experience bizarre results. But that doesn't mean that something is 'rigged', whatever your thought process of 'rigged' actually is.
The game may emphasize giving winnings to players with lower stakes, so it also pays more players or new players. The players with higher stakes lose more. The benefit? The game is constantly gaining new players who at some point go to higher stakes and start losing like crazy. More players, more money. Rtp is correct.
joshnadin
New member
I don't care about a specific point in the video, or how many YouTube clips you can paste into the thread that shows something outside of the expected behaviour of the game occurring.
The maths does not lie. Data that anyone can independently verify does not lie.
The fact that it would be impossible to sustain 'rigging' the result of a roulette wheel as a provider that caters to multiple online casinos all using the same games, at the same time, with said casinos independently either profiting or losing on a spin-by-spin basis depending on what result the players using that online casino bet on; there would be no way to 'rig' a result that would benefit either the provider, or any of the online casinos.
Please. Look at the actual facts and approach the conversation objectively before you just keep looking at videos of something you can't explain and insisting that something is 'rigged', without thinking about the fundamental logistics and mathematics behind what your claiming are impossible.
So you try to avoid the idea that there would be no rigged roulette tables in this world.
Everything is possible in this world. You are just living in your bubble. I call you ... tinfoil!!
joshnadin
New member
So now what you're suggesting Steve, is that every online casino is in collusion with game providers to somehow tell them that one of their players is 'new', or not, and is in real time giving that data to the provider to alter the result in their favour?
What happens in the scenario that a high roller has bet on the same result that the 'new' and/or low stake player has bet on? How do the providers then rig the result? What happens when the betting on the game means a drastic loss to one casino using that provider for a spin, but to another means a nice profit? Do the casinos have an agreement that 'you can have this one, and we'll have the next'?
The more you look at what you're suggesting, the more ridiculous it is, and the more the logistics of implementing your wild theories become more and more impossible.
I'm not trying to avoid any idea, I'm using the maths and facts that are available to come to a logical conclusion.
I can't begin to emphasise the hilarity that you're calling anyone tinfoil and living in a bubble after your 'contributions' to this thread. But please, continue..Everything is possible in this world. You are just living in your bubble. I call you ... tinfoil!!
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Stevej
New member
Hey man, I’m a web developer. We have amazing platforms and tools to collect data from every user in our sites. In real time yes. That combined with ai so you basically can do anything if you want. And now I’m saying that it is possible. Nobody has the facts.
You are black and white. Some players win big too, of course. But in slots, this would be super easy to do. In live games it’s possible to count the most profitable combinations for results as well. Computer can calculate it without any latency.
Again, this is not fact. But it is truly possible to do if they want. You don’t see what’s in the code. You just assume everything works like they should work.
You can’t admit that you were wrong. I told a scenario where rigging would work without manipulating rtp - you told it’s impossible.
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Stevej
New member
The one last video.
The probability for this scenario is 0,000000015%. I have another video like this from the Evo game.
You can always tell yourself, things just happen. But when you’ve gambled 15 years and experienced similar scenarious yourself, you open your eyes. I don’t care what fucking tinfoil people call me, I really don’t. I don’t just trust people and these games anymore. Maybe I’m right, maybe I’m wrong. Who knows…
joshnadin
New member
Did I say it would be impossible to create software and coding where this could happen? No.
Difficult, but not impossible.
This theory could work if the provider was responsible for paying out the wins, or taking the losses for the game. But they're not. If you can provide me with any kind of reasonable explanation to how this would be implemented across every single casino that uses the same provider, with it consistently being in the benefit of all the casinos using said provider, I'll eat my words. You won't be able to do, because it is again, impossible.
I'm not assuming. I'm using the maths and applying your theories to the real world, where they just do not add up, at all.
Besides this, if your absolutely insane theory was correct, and they had managed to devise a way to keep the RTP in line with what is advertised whilst manipulating profits (mathematically impossible again, by the way, bur for arguments sake), this would clearly show that a game is not operating properly and the expected profit is way, way more than it should be.
Regulators look into this all the time. The vetting process allows them to be able to turn up unannounced, and ask for the books at any time, and see exactly what is happening. If the amount of profit being made was in excess of what was expected, they would be investigated. Not to mention that the code you keep referencing, but we can not see, is also thoroughly vetted for fairness.
But, I forgot that all regulators are also in on the game and corrupt, right?
I'm not admitting I'm wrong, because I'm not wrong. If you can prove to me that I'm wrong, I'll gladly hold my hands up. You've come up with an extremely wild theory that I've already shown the maths does not work for, you've not provided a scenario alongside proof that works. Just a wild theory.
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Look man, you're really just grasping at straws at this point. You're not going to listen to any logic, rhyme, or reason, no matter what I say. You don't want to know. You could be sent to the Evo studios yourself to get whatever data you wanted to come to a conclusion, and you still wouldn't want to know.
It's no longer interesting for me to continue the conversation as nothing of value is being added, it's just becoming painful. If you want to believe that things are 'rigged', you're entitled to your belief. But I must strongly emphasise that it's your belief.
At least I've been able to back up my statements with the maths behind the game, knowledge of how the games operate, and something of substance that isn't simply a video of a game round with a strange result, or a 'data sample' collected over 14 days by one player that is never going to be accurate or relevant.
Peace out..
EDIT:
I love how this video is listed as 'proof'
Since when did a highly unlikely outcome come to be considered as proof? Jesus.
By the same principle, Kim hitting a bonus in a slot a few years back, three times in a row back to back to back, with a very similar probability is impossible.
You guys really need to learn the difference between an event that is highly improbable, and not possible without 'rigging'.
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