To what extent are slot predetermined?

Status
Not open for further replies.
It is my understanding that in order for the game to be licensed, it must be totally random. Games like Jamming Jars as an example pick a random win and then play out the graphics to display that win. So the outcome is predetermined, but it is still random. For the majority of slots, however, each spin in the bonus round is randomly determined just like in the base game. There may be different set of reels than the base game in play though.

In terms of the gamble features, again it is my understanding that what is displayed on the screen must reflect the actual gamble. So if you have a 60/40 chance of winning (like Extra Chili for example) then that is what happens in the background. But remember that the more gambles there are to the top, then you are going to, at some point, be hitting that 40% chance of not getting through hence the more that you spin that gamble wheel the more chance of getting stuck. It is simple statistics and odds.

 
Slotplayer said:
It is my understanding that in order for the game to be licensed, it must be totally random. Games like Jamming Jars as an example pick a random win and then play out the graphics to display that win. So the outcome is predetermined, but it is still random. For the majority of slots, however, each spin in the bonus round is randomly determined just like in the base game. There may be different set of reels than the base game in play though.

In terms of the gamble features, again it is my understanding that what is displayed on the screen must reflect the actual gamble. So if you have a 60/40 chance of winning (like Extra Chili for example) then that is what happens in the background. But remember that the more gambles there are to the top, then you are going to, at some point, be hitting that 40% chance of not getting through hence the more that you spin that gamble wheel the more chance of getting stuck. It is simple statistics and odds.
Click to expand...
Of course the outcome is random , but what we say is that a bonus round is predetermined before it's complete.. so no matter how many spins you have or what each spin will hit, youre X time bet win will be determined before the first spin of the bonus is initiated ! so the same when you gamble your spins, no matter if you gamble to 16 or 24 spins your win will be the same as it's predetermined.

 
Aviad said:
Of course the outcome is random , but what we say is that a bonus round is predetermined before it's complete.. so no matter how many spins you have or what each spin will hit, youre X time bet win will be determined before the first spin of the bonus is initiated ! so the same when you gamble your spins, no matter if you gamble to 16 or 24 spins your win will be the same as it's predetermined.
Click to expand...
With any gamble, it is not predetermined because how does the slot know when you decide to stop gambling and are satisfied with the number of spins you gambled to? If what you're stating is correct, then the game will not be licensed.

The gamble feature statistically speaking increases the amount of money won, because the more spins you do, the more money the bonus earns.

 
Slotplayer said:
With any gamble, it is not predetermined because how does the slot know when you decide to stop gambling and are satisfied with the number of spins you gambled to? If what you're stating is correct, then the game will not be licensed.

The gamble feature statistically speaking increases the amount of money won, because the more spins you do, the more money the bonus earns.
Click to expand...
read what I am writing, the amount of spins will be irrelevant if the game wants to give you X time your bet in the free spins it will give it with 8 spins of with 24 spins (of which half would be dead spins) so amount of spins is irrelevant.

 
I have noticed something Else on genie jackpots. When u buy the bonus its already predetirmined what type of the 4 bonuses u get. Happend to me 4 times as i had to refresh page then the bonus was already picked without me clicking on any lamp. It is in fact a bit annoying?

 
i think its unfair to single out Jammin Jars all the time, most slots work in this fashion. The only difference between it and any other slot is that a Push Gaming rep came here and confirmed it.

Reactoonz for example, you bet $1 the rng determines what figure you get paid and displays some graphics to represent that.

example, you bet $1

rng determines you will get back $800

game displays a load of connections, incisions, implosions etc culminating in Garga appearing and connecting with 15 pinks.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Regarding games with gamble feature.

It just rerolls  the rng when you press gamble.

For it to do otherwise and that it pays the same as it intended to when triggering the bonus doesn't make much sense to me as it would imply that even if you lose the gamble and do 0 spins you should still get the same payout as if you did 8, 16, 20 or 24 spins.

There is most likely some quite complex math behind these games, dynamic RNG and RTP that only overall has to come in line with the stated figures. It doesn't have to line up for everyone. 

We see what we want to see and are always on the lookout for anything that confirms our suspicions.

Also dragons fire has no gamble feature and of course its predetermined what you will get for the bonus, its how slots work, you bet, they pick a number and show you a visual representation that correlates to that number. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know, I get a bit annoyed by these observations of a singular persons experience passed off as fact.

I've seen a ghost, in jogging gear, chased after me on a stormy night as I was walking through a park near a lake.

If anyone is so suspicious of the gambling industry then they owe it to themselves to study mathematics and programming, get a job working for BGT or whomever and expose them, here on the forum, with facts and figures. Free the people from the tyranny of the slot providers.

Lack of conviction?

 
dirtystack said:
Regarding games with gamble feature.

It just rerolls  the rng when you press gamble.

For it to do otherwise and that it pays the same as it intended to when triggering the bonus doesn't make much sense to me as it would imply that even if you lose the gamble and do 0 spins you should still get the same payout as if you did 8, 16, 20 or 24 spins.

There is most likely some quite complex math behind these games, dynamic RNG and RTP that only overall has to come in line with the stated figures. It doesn't have to line up for everyone. 

We see what we want to see and are always on the lookout for anything that confirms our suspicions.

Also dragons fire has no gamble feature and of course its predetermined what you will get for the bonus, its how slots work, you bet, they pick a number and show you a visual representation that correlates to that number. 
Click to expand...
Exactly that.. you can choose not to gamble and get zero wins in your 8 spins the same as if you would gamble and loose the gamble to zero spins... 

 
I've been paid 0 in 8 spins once. 

It would have to happen 50% of the time that you took 8 spins if it worked they way you think.

 
Have to concur with some on here on the gamble features. Will use Blueprint as an example. You get a feature on say Ted. You gamble your feature from the bottom feature up to the big money. There is no conceivable way on earth that the bottom feature would pay even 10% of the top feature. Basic gameplay 100% is predetermined as is all about luck. Must say there is no "skill" involved in gambling a feature, again it's just luck.

 
Maybe when you hit bonus round on extra chilli the possible payouts are determined there and then;

0x for 0 spins,

1500x for 8 spins,

40x for 12 spins,

1000x for 20 spins,

400x for 24 spins.

 Where you stop gambling or whatever determines which, of the  predetermined figures calculated when you press spin, will be your reward.

 
dirtystack said:
Maybe when you hit bonus round on extra chilli the possible payouts are determined there and then;

0x for 0 spins,

1500x for 8 spins,

40x for 12 spins,

1000x for 20 spins,

400x for 24 spins.

 Where you stop gambling or whatever determines which, of the  predetermined figures calculated when you press spin, will be your reward.
Click to expand...
It's an interesting argument. There have been 100 posts about the Chilli gamble wheel. There is some "proof" from certain samples that wheel 2 loses more often than not which doesn't fit with the mathematical or logical model. Some even crying false representation. You know what, i think there is a bit of both. However, I'd say unless you can afford to lose a lot of money I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

 
Extra Chilli is just terrible for me, whether I spin or buy the feature, gamble or don't gamble.

77% rtp for me after 30000+ spins 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
i've seen evidence that Blue Print's pickers are already determined, so it doesn't matter which you pick you will reveal what ever was determined... Usually when you do a picker this way they are not supposed to reveal the things you couldn't pick but i'm guessing if the odds of the pre-determined item are true (that is what they appear to be) they can display the ones you couldn't pick... for example if you have three lamps, there is still a 33% chance of picking any of the hidden choices it's just chosen before you have picked it then can display what you didn't pick... still seems a little cheap to me but mathematically it's fair...

Other pickers, usually ones tied to huge jackpots are pre-determined and you can tell this because they wont show you what you could have picked when you picked all you can... that's because what you picked isn't true, that is the chance of you getting the 4 golden orbs to unlock the top jackpot is not 4 out of 15 (assuming 15 items to choose - and yes 4/15 is actually not the real odds, it would be something like 1/15 x 1/14 x 1/13 x 1/12 but i'm too lazy to do that calc)... anyway, the odds are not 4/15 to get the 100k prize it's probably more like 1/100k or something...

 
This is how it works:
If you can gamble a feature, you will get a different outcome if you choose to do it or not (Extra Chilli, Vikings Unleashed etc)

If you can select between features, depending on the one you pick there will be a different outcome (Danger High Voltage)

If you get to select between different things in a bonus round (not gamble it), but you only get revealed what you picked after the fact, the outcome was already determined when you pressed spin originally (Genie Jackpot, Dragon's fire, Wish upon a jackpot, loads and loads more games.)

All of these are fine and can be designed so that RTP is correct. To note is that if you do a 50/50 gamble in Extra Chilli and win, your bonus will on average pay out roughly twice as much as if you hadn't gambled. If it didn't, it wouldn't be ok to offer.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
What about games you can quickspin like blueprint ones? Surely the game can't send for a RNG wait for reply, get reply then decide how its played that fast. We have all seen how fast you can click those games even with a very slow internet speed

Also games like chilli I can believe that the actual win you get isn't predetermined until you click collect.

 
Andreas said:
If you can select between features, depending on the one you pick there will be a different outcome (Danger High Voltage)
Click to expand...
I had a gameround on DHV, where the game froze before i manage to pick the feature. It took a few days to sort it out, and my balance was credited with the outcome of the bonus. If the outcome is based on what you pick, how can that be possible in my case? Shouldnt i be able to play my round, or did the provider or casino choose my pick, and if so, would it be fair to ask me which result i want if they are different?

 
pausefisk said:
I had a gameround on DHV, where the game froze before i manage to pick the feature. It took a few days to sort it out, and my balance was credited with the outcome of the bonus. If the outcome is based on what you pick, how can that be possible in my case? Shouldnt i be able to play my round, or did the provider or casino choose my pick, and if so, would it be fair to ask me which result i want if they are different?
Click to expand...
In those cases of frozen game the provided will often run 5 or 10 features and pay you the average result, happened to me on secrets of Christmas I had a frozen bonus round and the casino had to contact netent and that's exactly what happened they ran 10 bonuses and paid me the average result.

 
Are you not effectively contradicting yourself when you say some games are predetermined and then you gamble, lose and end up with nothing. That's not predetermined.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top