Streamers Like Ayezee Are Going To Ruin it For Everyone

[The Macho Man]

And to further drive home the point lets talk about the affiliate marketing side of things. There are casino affiliate programs out there that offer anywhere from $200-$300 + % of lifetime recurring income (based off play) to affiliate who promote casinos and get people to signup under their affiliate links and play.

Each casino calculates their average LVC (lifetime value of customer) in order to determine how much they are willing to pay an affiliate to generate signups to their website. If a casino is willing to pay 200-300$ for signups PLUS a % of the money made for a lifetime off a customer.... chances are the average value of each casino customer is worth easily over $500-1000 for offering deals like that.

Now take a guy like XQC... gets 150-200k views per stream. All his content on all platforms probably gets seen by a minimum of maybe 10 million unique people per month. (I'm pretty sure its a lot more than that, but for argument sake lets stick with 10 million unique viewers).

Lets play it safe and assume that out of those 10 million unique viewers watching his gambling content, he gets a minimum of 1% of those people to signup and gamble. Maybe since his viewers are a lot younger that the value of his LVC signups are on the low end of $500.  That's still $50,000,000 in expected lifetime value of his signups. AND THAT'S LOW BALLING for almost all numbers used in this discussion. 

So you're telling me a casino would never pay 1 million dollars a month for $50,000,000 in return? Yea... you guys have no idea how much money is in gambling. 

 

[vanHooff]

Yea... you guys have no idea how much money is in gambling. 

@The Macho Man  Some of the bigger casino groups are publicly traded or otherwise publish annual reports that can easily be googled and downloaded.
Moreover there are estimates for 'Channelization' which is the ratio of licensed vs unlicensed gambling, and also aggregate gambling tax numbers from governments are published.

Just as an example: 2020 marketing expenditure from Kindred Group (Unibet, 32RED et al.) was GBP 257,2 Million
Screenie from their annual report:
 

  

So yes, I tend to believe that Stake could spend EUR 12 million or so yearly on marketing through sponsoring streamers.

But I'd like to raise another point: the big casino's European casino's that are compliant with legislations all have responsible gambling in some sorts in their strategies or even their missions. 

Admitted there are some shithole casino's that have Malta licenses (N1 Group) and some Curacao licensed casino's or sportsbooks are running a decent operation.

But otherwise, a Curacao license does warrant very little other than excluding Dutch and American customers ( DUCY? )

Some Curacao casino's might want to scam their customers and not pay winners, some don't care about KYC procedures or underaged gambling, some might want to make some money on the side using your KYC details, and some might be money laundering operations for organized crime.

Do you know anything about the ownership of Stake ? Do you mind? 
 

 

[The Macho Man]

@The Macho Man  Some of the bigger casino groups are publicly traded, and their annual reports can easily be googled and downloaded.
Moreover there are estimates for 'Channelization' which is the ratio of licensed vs unlicensed gambling, and also aggregate gambling tax numbers from governments are published.

Just as an example: 2020 marketing expenditure from Kindred Group (Unibet, 32RED et al.) was GBP 257,2 Million
Screenie from their annual report:
 
View attachment 28020
  

So yes, I tend to believe that Stake could spend EUR 12 million or so yearly on marketing through sponsoring streamers.

But I'd like to raise another point: the big casino's European casino's that are compliant with legislations all have responsible gaming in some sorts in their strategies or even their missions. 

Admitted there are some shithole casino's that have Malta licenses (N1 Group) and some Curacao licensed casino's or sportsbooks are running a decent operation.

But otherwise, a Curacao license does warrant very little other than excluding Dutch and American customers ( DUCY? )

Some Curacao casino's might want to scam their customers and not pay winners, some don't care about KYC procedures or underaged gambling, some might want to make some money on the side using your KYC details, and some might be money laundering operations for organized crime.

Do you know anything about the ownership of Stake ? Do you mind? 
 

I don't know much other than whats already out there. I know someone who knows the owner, the guy started the site maybe two/three years ago or so maybe. At first it was nothing more than a typical crypto casino site offering stuff like dice, and other basic games. 

Then I believe it acquired some shady curacao license or 'piggy-backed' off one (don't know the correct term here). But it's been talked about on other platforms and articles that stake does use one of those shady licenses. Point is it was created by some guy a couple years ago as another generic crypto casino that was built up overtime to be more 'legit' and secured the ability to host real slots / table games.

Then the big crypto boom happened, obviously more people got into crypto, the guy did very well for himself, started paying influencers to play on his site and it snowballed recently in the past half year I'd say. 

Now he has money to buy 'brand ambassadors' like UFC fighters and even bought an ad spot on the UFC mat for past PPV events. 

But the overall point is this guy wasn't apart of any big casino company or I don't think he was funded in anyway, I think he may of got rich early off crypto and opened his own site and it blew up from there. But yeah crypto casinos work in a grey area in a lot of places. I don't think they have to deal with the same kind of regulations since most governments don't consider it a currency (At least thats their reasoning why they let people from US play). Although I think they are starting to crack down on this as some of the big US streamers are starting to move out of the states or gamble only when they visit places like mexico. (Big crackdown might be coming). And rumor has it the site itself is starting to crack down on US players, but I don't think they are, they are just trying to appear like they are cracking down.

But yeah I can see why the Euro people on this site think all of this sounds ridiculous and can't be possible because they see regulations everywhere for online casinos in their country. But crypto casinos are the wild west of online gambling, there are almost no regulations for it, and crypto in general is very anonymous to begin with so crypto casinos can get away with a lot more currently. That's why there's so much money in it and its growing so fast.  

 

[The Macho Man]

Also just another quick thing that can help shed light on just how much money stake is bringing in... I've attached an image that shows the recent weekly affiliate earnings for the past 7 days that they send out every week on the affiliate telegram group... $1.85 million PROFIT. paid out to affiliates the past week. 

Now most affiliates on stake only get 10% of profit as their base payout. Some do get more, but those are mostly streamers and I don't think streamer affiliate income is accounted for in these stats (stake doesn't allow streamers to participate in other parts of community rewards and they usually have their own affiliate section), but lets just stick with the base 10% paid out to affiliates. Which means based on these numbers, stake made $18.5 million dollars this past week in profit... NOW that's just profit that is traceable to affiliates who referred people in, this doesn't even account for just regular signups that had no affiliate referrals tied to the account.

So just off these numbers alone, stake is making 50-75 million a month just on accounts tied to affiliate referrals. Now add in accounts with no referrals and streamers who's referrals may or may not be contributing to this number and stake is easily pulling in 50-75+ million a month profit, who knows what the total profit is after all expenses are paid for like paying out streamers/ambassadors/etc. The point is they are making a CRAP TON of money. And yet there are people here who still think they can't afford to pay streamers 100k a month LOL.

 

[vanHooff]

^^ From the Stake.com T&C's: 


 

USA and the Netherlands excluded. 

I suspect that the presence of these two countries in this clause comes from the Curacao license giver, not from the casino itself. 
For the Netherlands: Curacao used to be a colony and still gets money ( 'loans' ) for which in return Dutch customers are not serviced.
USA: just not smart to mess with the USA when it comes to financial federal crimes.

@The Macho Man I am not arguing about any of the posted amounts.
However I would no be surprised if Stake services Americans that it is shut down in some way so that the (5000) other casino's can operate like they are used to. 

 

[The Macho Man]

^^ From the Stake.com T&C's: 

View attachment 28022
 

USA and the Netherlands excluded. 

I suspect that the presence of these two countries in this clause comes from the Curacao license giver, not from the casino itself. 
For the Netherlands: Curacao used to be a colony and still gets money ( 'loans' ) for which in return Dutch customers are not serviced.
USA: just not smart to mess with the USA when it comes to financial federal crimes.

@The Macho Man I am not arguing about any of the posted amounts.
However I would no be surprised if Stake services Americans that it is shut down in some way so that the (5000) other casino's can operate like they are used to. 

Well the big loophole here is all of this is done with cryptocurrencies. So as far as I know its all a grey area which is why they get away with it. I don't think anything will happen with them until the US accepts that crypto is a currency. And the license givers are happy to hand out licenses to these sites until those loopholes are dealt with. Which is why I said its like the wild west. Crypto was a god send for some of these companies because it let them step over the line and take advantage of big markets like the US. That's why stake grew so fast. 

My guess is when pressure starts showing up, Eddie the owner will just outright ban people from US and it will be like a traditional online casino with KYC and 'play at your own risk'. So I'm guessing for Eddie it's just a race to buy his way to the top and when that pressure comes he can afford to let go of the US market.

 

[Derpthederp]

You make some good points but a few are completely inaccurate.

Your self exclusion comment is wrong. There are people who have been able to reactivate their accounts even after telling some of these crypto casinos they were problem gamblers. 
 

You miss a huge point. These casinos are allowing illegal bypassing of restrictions via VPN.  Go onto their live chat and they will openly say VPN is allowed.  They are BREAKING THE LAW!

I don't know what Crypto casinos have done what with exclusion, but just giving my anecdotal experience that when doing self exclusion from some fake casinos it was a process that involved me getting offered bonuses, but not had the same happen on Stake or rollbit (and I have both self excluded and tried to get it un-excluded which did not work on either Stake or Rollbit). 

About "breaking the law" my point is that I don't care. While I understand some people are just completely against gambling, and for them it makes sense. But if you like gambling and want to be able to do it responsibly, a bunch of different countries have a bunch of different ridiculous laws. 

So to me it is either gambling on a crypto site like Rollbit, which has the best experience for me, highest RTP, easiest cashouts, best rewards, but they are not allowed according to some regulation. Or I can gamble at some place that is worse with all of these. things, and on top of that does a bunch of shady things, but they have the right regulation so they are more legal. 

I don't care about the regulations or the licenses, I care about my experience as the end user. I'm confident enough that Stake or Rollbit is legit (e.g won't just take my deposit), and the RTP of the different slots is controlled by the providor not stake, so my money is about as safe there as anywhere else. 

I also think the way it works in terms of legality in a lot of countries/states, is that its illegal for the casinos to operate there (but if you use a VPN they can't know they are operating there), but it's not illegal for you as an individual to gamble there. 

The majority of money is sponsored, meaning its not the streamers money.  Yet they wont say this publicly.  

You say this but I mean you don't need to think very far to understand why it doesn't hav to be. 

 

[thelegendhimself222]

@thelegendhimself222 Do you honestly believe its real money ? 

I honestly do believe it is, has been and always will be real money.

 

[footatoo]

nice!

 

[TommyBhoy]

Here is Ayezees stats since 9th of April 2021

Total bets - 213,482

Wagered - $144,580,216 

That is not a typo his stats say he has wagered $144 million.  Anybody genuinely still think he is legit?

So he has wagered $48,193,405 a month? 
 

 

[Ash W]

I think what any viewer wants is real money and upfront details on bonus terms. I find the CG streams I follow I am provided this information. 

Watch a Crypto streamer its a starter of a 100k+ like every normal gambler deposits...its also disgraceful as its leading people to sites with MINIMAL kyc and self exclusion protection.

Crypto may be a massive part of the future of the gambling industry but the clowns streaming it at the moment are profiteering and not transparent and as such I don't consider them trustworthy streamers. 

 

[Derpthederp]

I think what any viewer wants is real money and upfront details on bonus terms. I find the CG streams I follow I am provided this information. 

Watch a Crypto streamer its a starter of a 100k+ like every normal gambler deposits...its also disgraceful as its leading people to sites with MINIMAL kyc and self exclusion protection.

Crypto may be a massive part of the future of the gambling industry but the clowns streaming it at the moment are profiteering and not transparent and as such I don't consider them trustworthy streamers. 

Ayezee was completely transparent with the deposit bonuses he was using when that was how he played. Train and Ayezee are now also open to how the new stream is set up, that they get paid some amount by the casino each month. They have not mentioned exactly how much (Which makes perfect sense because they would not gain much from disclosing that information) it is but it seems plausible its in the range of like $1 million a month or more. 

The KYC And self exclusion is so stupid. When it comes to Self Exclusion, I've never had issues with self exclusion on Stake or Rollbit, but I have had issues with real money casinos where I tried to self exclude and they made it a pain in the ass and instead of self excluding me first offered me a reload bonus which is obviously shady as fuck. 

And same for KYC, I've played on over 10 different real money online casinos and have not once been asked for KYC before depositing. You can lose as much as you want and they don't care about KYC; only when you try to withdraw you need to verify. It's used as a barrier for withdrawal where you need to jump through hoops and wait like 5+ business days and its obvious that part of t is that they hope you will gamble back some of your winnings. 

Here is Ayezees stats since 9th of April 2021

Total bets - 213,482

Wagered - $144,580,216 

That is not a typo his stats say he has wagered $144 million.  Anybody genuinely still think he is legit?

So he has wagered $48,193,405 a month? 
 

$48 million comes with an expected loss of about 720k, I'd be pretty surprised if he is paid less than this by rollbit (especially if you take into account that part of the agreement for the current deal he is one is that he would be playing raw.) 

Feels pretty standard for comments like this to just throw out some number and say its clearly not legit without actually thinking about the numbers behind it though.

Now 720k would be average RTP on slots, but it could be possible that he has been running good lately so he culd have wagered $48 million and be up 720k for all we know. Which would make it even more plausible of being legit.

But the actual reality of it makes it even easier to explain, Rollbit has a system where the #1 wagered player gets $5000 every day no questions asked. The current player has $150 million wagered (he is not a streamer/content creator by the way). Ayezee basically thinks it is inevitable for him to get the #1 wagered spot because he now plays rollbit exclusively, so he wants to claim the #1 wagered spot so he can get $5k a day which he could use for the stream etc. So he has been playing not just slots but also been playing games with a higher RTP (99%+) placing huge which mostly just break even so he can speed up his progression to the #1 wagered spot. 

 

[TommyBhoy]

Ayezee was completely transparent with the deposit bonuses he was using when that was how he played. Train and Ayezee are now also open to how the new stream is set up, that they get paid some amount by the casino each month. They have not mentioned exactly how much (Which makes perfect sense because they would not gain much from disclosing that information) it is but it seems plausible its in the range of like $1 million a month or more. 

The KYC And self exclusion is so stupid. When it comes to Self Exclusion, I've never had issues with self exclusion on Stake or Rollbit, but I have had issues with real money casinos where I tried to self exclude and they made it a pain in the ass and instead of self excluding me first offered me a reload bonus which is obviously shady as fuck. 

And same for KYC, I've played on over 10 different real money online casinos and have not once been asked for KYC before depositing. You can lose as much as you want and they don't care about KYC; only when you try to withdraw you need to verify. It's used as a barrier for withdrawal where you need to jump through hoops and wait like 5+ business days and its obvious that part of t is that they hope you will gamble back some of your winnings. 

$48 million comes with an expected loss of about 720k, I'd be pretty surprised if he is paid less than this by rollbit (especially if you take into account that part of the agreement for the current deal he is one is that he would be playing raw.) 

Feels pretty standard for comments like this to just throw out some number and say its clearly not legit without actually thinking about the numbers behind it though.

Now 720k would be average RTP on slots, but it could be possible that he has been running good lately so he culd have wagered $48 million and be up 720k for all we know. Which would make it even more plausible of being legit.

But the actual reality of it makes it even easier to explain, Rollbit has a system where the #1 wagered player gets $5000 every day no questions asked. The current player has $150 million wagered (he is not a streamer/content creator by the way). Ayezee basically thinks it is inevitable for him to get the #1 wagered spot because he now plays rollbit exclusively, so he wants to claim the #1 wagered spot so he can get $5k a day which he could use for the stream etc. So he has been playing not just slots but also been playing games with a higher RTP (99%+) placing huge which mostly just break even so he can speed up his progression to the #1 wagered spot. 

You are talking absolute rubbish!

Ayezee is not transparent, people like you think he is being transparent when showing crypto deposits/withdrawals. Showing this proves absolutely nothing. 

Can you guarantee the casino is not refunding these stakes?  
 

How you can even try and defend someone doing 200k bonus hunts, it tells us all how brainwashed you are.  Its very dangerous.  There is a forum on Reddit stating one of Ayezee’s old guests, Toby I think his name was, called him out for misleading viewers.  I dont have a link to the blog but do you not find it funny how Toby mysteriously disappeared from his streams and now he has guys like Foss on who the whole world knows is playing with house money.

Ayezee and others doing those stakes will take the full community down with them. 

 

[ts999777]

blockchain address means nothing.

this

 

[dirtystack]

It says the casinos are a place to not just paste time but to also win huge amounts of money and then goes on to warn you about websites/casinos which try to entice you with the possibility of winning huge amounts of money.

Borderline retarded and completely unaware.

$48 million comes with an expected loss of about 720k

Can you show how you figured this out? 
This would only be true if playing a game with 98.5% RTP

I really doubt he is playing 1429 Uncharted Seas all day.

 

[dirtystack]

Now 720k would be average RTP on slots

It is well above average to only lose 720k from 48 million wagered.

With 97% rtp the expected loss would be 1.44 million. Almost every slot has worse then 97% RTP.  Can only think of a handful that have higher.

 

[damnyouwagering]

Ayezee was completely transparent with the deposit bonuses he was using when that was how he played. Train and Ayezee are now also open to how the new stream is set up, that they get paid some amount by the casino each month. They have not mentioned exactly how much (Which makes perfect sense because they would not gain much from disclosing that information) it is but it seems plausible its in the range of like $1 million a month or more. 

The KYC And self exclusion is so stupid. When it comes to Self Exclusion, I've never had issues with self exclusion on Stake or Rollbit, but I have had issues with real money casinos where I tried to self exclude and they made it a pain in the ass and instead of self excluding me first offered me a reload bonus which is obviously shady as fuck. 

And same for KYC, I've played on over 10 different real money online casinos and have not once been asked for KYC before depositing. You can lose as much as you want and they don't care about KYC; only when you try to withdraw you need to verify. It's used as a barrier for withdrawal where you need to jump through hoops and wait like 5+ business days and its obvious that part of t is that they hope you will gamble back some of your winnings. 

$48 million comes with an expected loss of about 720k, I'd be pretty surprised if he is paid less than this by rollbit (especially if you take into account that part of the agreement for the current deal he is one is that he would be playing raw.) 

Feels pretty standard for comments like this to just throw out some number and say its clearly not legit without actually thinking about the numbers behind it though.

Now 720k would be average RTP on slots, but it could be possible that he has been running good lately so he culd have wagered $48 million and be up 720k for all we know. Which would make it even more plausible of being legit.

But the actual reality of it makes it even easier to explain, Rollbit has a system where the #1 wagered player gets $5000 every day no questions asked. The current player has $150 million wagered (he is not a streamer/content creator by the way). Ayezee basically thinks it is inevitable for him to get the #1 wagered spot because he now plays rollbit exclusively, so he wants to claim the #1 wagered spot so he can get $5k a day which he could use for the stream etc. So he has been playing not just slots but also been playing games with a higher RTP (99%+) placing huge which mostly just break even so he can speed up his progression to the #1 wagered spot. 

OMG The Ayezee fanboys are 100% flat earthers LMFAO!!

 

[Derpthederp]

You are talking absolute rubbish!

Ayezee is not transparent, people like you think he is being transparent when showing crypto deposits/withdrawals. Showing this proves absolutely nothing. 

Can you guarantee the casino is not refunding these stakes?  
 

How you can even try and defend someone doing 200k bonus hunts, it tells us all how brainwashed you are.  Its very dangerous.  There is a forum on Reddit stating one of Ayezee’s old guests, Toby I think his name was, called him out for misleading viewers.  I dont have a link to the blog but do you not find it funny how Toby mysteriously disappeared from his streams and now he has guys like Foss on who the whole world knows is playing with house money.

Ayezee and others doing those stakes will take the full community down with them. 

The guy posting about Toby is just like most people calling streamers like ayezee, talking out of their ass without any proof. Toby and Ayezee still has regular interactions (can see ayezee links to Toby calling him the GOAT), Toby also streams on twitch now, poker and league, and regularly gets hosted by Ayezee. Should be obvious toby has not written some post calling ayezee fake but i'm sure you can just go on twitch and ask him. 

It is well above average to only lose 720k from 48 million wagered.

With 97% rtp the expected loss would be 1.44 million. Almost every slot has worse then 97% RTP.  Can only think of a handful that have higher.

Rollbit (Where ayezee plays) gives about 50-55% of the house edge back when wagering so 3% house edge(97% RTP) becomes 1.5% actual house edge, which makes 48 million a 720k expected loss. 

 

[Derpthederp]

You can signup, deposits tons of money, but the moment you hit withdrawl you'll get a shitload of checks that make zero sense. Due to the fact that there is no verification at signup and deposit, underaged can play at such casino's and would fall out of the sky when attempting to withdrawl. A completely bad and irresponsible way of promoting a casino.

This is how most real money (e.g "KYC oh so legit") casinos operate. They don't do any KYC checks as long as you are just depositing, but as soon as you want to withdraw even a tiny amount they add a bunch of hurdles where you need to post various pictures and wait for 7 business days for them to be verified, all while your money is stuck in the Casino (as they obviously hope you will gamble it back.)

I've cashed out somewhere in the range of $10k both on Stake and on Rollbit and it has always happened instantly, no questions asked. People can shit talk curacao license all they want (which is the only license you can get as a crypto casino I beieve?). I would 10000% recommend stake or rollbit over any other casino because they are just better. They are not shady, they are just more user friendly with faster withdrawals. I Can see why regulators would call them shady (because they let you use a VPN to circumvent geopgrahpical limitations), but I don't care about regulations I just want to gamble, and if I want to gamble on the best casino in terms of user experience and benefits 100000% that is stake or rollbit. 

If someone can tell me 1 real money casino that comes close in terms of better experience for a gambler please let me know because I've tried dozens of real money casinos and they have all been absolute shite and riddled with shady bonus offers requiring reading of fine print etc. If you get bonuses on stake or rollbit you can generally just cash them out without doing any gambling f.ex 

OMG The Ayezee fanboys are 100% flat earthers LMFAO!!

This is the stereotypical response from people calling these streamers fake. "LOL SHEEP Believing its real, 1 million wins? LOL not real! It Can't be real" without being able to string together any sort of argument for why its fake. The only reason it is fake is because the amount of money is large, and they are not able to form a coherent argument on why it is fake, but it is very easy to make the counter argument both in terms of economics and human psychology for why its real. 

You people are delusional on how much money there is in online gambling and advertisement. Stake has billions wagered per week. Online casino is big business (and it has becoming a significantly bigger business, especially in terms of crypto casino, over the last 1-2 years).

Train has mentioned how much he is paid per month now ($1 million a month), which does not count his referrals, and honestly I think train could get paid more. 

This is how these players are able to play the stakes they are, they get paid a big flat fee from the casinos, and they then use that to gamble. 

If you want to call that fake because the casino gives them money then sure, but thats something they are open about. 

 

[damnyouwagering]

This is how most real money (e.g "KYC oh so legit") casinos operate. They don't do any KYC checks as long as you are just depositing, but as soon as you want to withdraw even a tiny amount they add a bunch of hurdles where you need to post various pictures and wait for 7 business days for them to be verified, all while your money is stuck in the Casino (as they obviously hope you will gamble it back.)

I've cashed out somewhere in the range of $10k both on Stake and on Rollbit and it has always happened instantly, no questions asked. People can shit talk curacao license all they want (which is the only license you can get as a crypto casino I beieve?). I would 10000% recommend stake or rollbit over any other casino because they are just better. They are not shady, they are just more user friendly with faster withdrawals. I Can see why regulators would call them shady (because they let you use a VPN to circumvent geopgrahpical limitations), but I don't care about regulations I just want to gamble, and if I want to gamble on the best casino in terms of user experience and benefits 100000% that is stake or rollbit. 

If someone can tell me 1 real money casino that comes close in terms of better experience for a gambler please let me know because I've tried dozens of real money casinos and they have all been absolute shite and riddled with shady bonus offers requiring reading of fine print etc. If you get bonuses on stake or rollbit you can generally just cash them out without doing any gambling f.ex 

This is the stereotypical response from people calling these streamers fake. "LOL SHEEP Believing its real, 1 million wins? LOL not real! It Can't be real" without being able to string together any sort of argument for why its fake. The only reason it is fake is because the amount of money is large, and they are not able to form a coherent argument on why it is fake, but it is very easy to make the counter argument both in terms of economics and human psychology for why its real. 

You people are delusional on how much money there is in online gambling and advertisement. Stake has billions wagered per week. Online casino is big business (and it has becoming a significantly bigger business, especially in terms of crypto casino, over the last 1-2 years).

Train has mentioned how much he is paid per month now ($1 million a month), which does not count his referrals, and honestly I think train could get paid more. 

This is how these players are able to play the stakes they are, they get paid a big flat fee from the casinos, and they then use that to gamble. 

If you want to call that fake because the casino gives them money then sure, but thats something they are open about. 

LOL. I cant cope anymore stop it, I literally cant stop laughing at people like you