Dodgy streamers?.. questionable ethics discussion.

[Playford7]

Good morning all, 

Firstly I just like to say this thread isn’t at all intended to flame, troll or bad Mouth streamers in general as there are some whom act totally responsibly and know what they are doing regarding how they conduct themselves and there business. 

That said, on the other hand there are now a few streamers who’s behaviour is frankly questionable at best... most obviously is the casinos some of these guys are pushing and promoting, a small example would be chipmonkz slots, currently promoting slots magic, who are frankly terrible with aweful customer service, anti-player terms and conditions and poor bonus offers. The guys had many complaints about them via twitch and yet still hasn’t pulled them, not only that he’s promoting netbet, who anyone who’s a ounce of casino knowledge would know there infact actually Classed rogue, https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/netbet/ that’s a link about netbet, years ago may have been credible, not now. Whether chipmonkz has dropped these as yet remains to be seen, but the issue I take with that is why promote such a terrible casino in the first place?..

surerly it’s down to a streamer to do some research and use due diligence before pushing a casino onto sign ups, some whom probably are totally new to online casinos. The guy also promotes caddell’s playgrand, decent license and casino albeit the terrible pending period of 48 hours, however he was telling people the wagering for his offer is 35x, well it’s not... it’s 35x deposit plus bonus, so in effect 70x, it’s only 30x after the welcome offers have all been taken, I’m sorry but for me that’s just straight up setting out to mislead people and it’s morally wrong. 

We also have ‘fruityslots’ now, they are happily playing at and promoting queen Vegas https://thepogg.com/casino-review/queen-vegas/ that’s from the pogg, one of the most credible and reliable voices in online casinos in the industry, Queen Vegas are terrible in every way, you only have to look on many of fruityslots videos on YouTube to see the negative comments about the casino, and basically the streamers are just giving a talk to the hand response as apparently the ‘affiliate manager’ is in holiday... hardly helps a player who’s been ripped off or has a issue does it. 

Fruityslots also openly promoted aspire global sites which anyone who’s played online for a while we know are just laughably bad. 

This isn’t a personal attack at the guys mentioned above, it’s merely a few examples of streamers whom on the front of it look trustworthy and ethical, but the business practices used by them based on the places they promote alone must surerly make you ask questions. You have streamers like nick for example whom from my personal experience has only ever actually promoted accredited casinos, he infact has dropped some casinos as his sign ups had complaints, now that’s proper behaviour from someone who takes his business seriously, the behaviour of rogue streamers if you will actually discredits the work of a decent and morally correct affiliate. 

I’m no champion of affiliation by any means, infact rather the opposite. But with the stick and hassles affiliates are getting lately, and to be honest a massive backlash with channels removed, mass trolling happening I can only but think The work of immoral and unprofessional streamers doesn’t help the decent guys out one bit...

anyway would love to hear some thoughts on the above, thanks for taking the time to read this. 

 

[Chipmonkz]

Hey Ben / Playford

To clarify a few points.

I don't work with NetBet at the moment although customer feedback was great.

Slots Magic are a good brand and feedback has again been great except for one issue which i am resolving for someone.

The playgrand offer now states the bonus offer in full clarity that its 35x plus the 35 x it was a mistake that i stated it at 35x  cash only on stream  also payout is now done within 24 hours.

I did message you on twitter to try and work with you to offer full clarity on what i do.

Also casino meister is a guide not bible they also have there own offers on the site, its a great site and i use it but its not the be all and end all.

Now in regards to the email you sent me which for your sake i wont share, calling all streamers mongs and scumbags is not the best way to start a conversation hence me not replying.

If you are really wanting to help then maybe try a different approach rather than spamming my videos with this guy is dodgy.

I am always happy to incorporate changes to what i do to offer full clarity at all times feel free to pm me .

Thanks  

 

[Josh Green]

Echo what Chips says.

You mention Nick for dropping casinos - you dont mention that we dropped aspire brands almost immediately after bad feedback and poor wagering terms. They were one of the 1st casinos we streamed at nearly  a year ago and barely lasted a month with them so seems your plucking at straws a little to prove a point.

You also dont mention we stream at Unibet, a plc. Genesis group, a highly reputable group which many streamers use. Ivy group, another highly respected affiliate group and also Queen Vegas which you quite rightly point out have negative reviews but like Chips says they are not the bible of reviews. Queen Vegas has been very good to us and for the most part the players, the problem they have is with their live support which is non existent and something they are trying to remedy. As far as bonuses, game selection, bonus terms, promotions and cashier options we have zero complaints with them and they offer a very good product.

One persons poor casino may be another persons go to casino... Its the nature of the beast. 

 

[OnlyASpin]

Research before streaming bad casinos.

 

[Playford7]

Wasn’t intended as a slur, nor a attack. Was just factual. Nothing personally against ether mentioned, I could mentioned other nefarious streamers such as rosh, but where all aware of the validity of his work...or at least hope we are.

i just fail to understand that why you would choose almost backstreet casinos to promote when you have dozens of decent caddell or mt secure trade casinos to use, maybe the not so decent casino give free cash to stream?.. just a thought however... I get affiliate market is saturated, but some places I’ve seen promoted send shudders Down the spine akin to a evening with the rosh... 

again sorry, genuinely wasn’t meaning any disrespect, and chip I’ll happily pm you, not a fan of your business practice but as a person your likeable enough. 

 

[Chipmonkz]

hahaha 

Worded nicely with an underlying tone of distrust.

Was not an attack? You called me a mong and i an affiliate scumbag... 

As for casino cash as you call it when i won on slotsmagic i gave my friend 3 grand in cash through skrill was that from my dodgy casino money?

If you want to have a conversation in pms thats fine but please do some research as what you have replied with really does not make it look like you have.

I do hope your intentions are ones of improving what we do but right now i really doubt that.

Let's hope im wrong....

 

[Playford7]

It most certainly is a case of wanting ones whom are affiliated to behave better, as certain members here will atestify to. 

My sincere apologies for my less than tactful tone previously, genuinely that was not required and granted lost some respect. Moving forward that won’t be the case, that you have my word. 

At times im lets say over enthusiastic about things and it came across poorly, so again sorry for that... 

I’ll happily pm you in due course, in the meantime thanks for actually responding as it’s good your open to dialogue. 

 

[Nicola]

Playford, good of you to apologise to Chipmonkz. If that e-mail was sent where you said those things, that's not very nice though

 

[Playford7]

Playford, good of you to apologise to Chipmonkz. If that e-mail was sent where you said those things, that's not very nice though

He didn’t lie, I’m man enough to admit such a poor use of vocabulary to him, he’s not lying. I wasn’t threatening or abusive at all, my tone and language however was less than decent... I hold my hands up to that, publicly... 

and I’m sorry for that... that was poor and rather pathetic judgement on my part. As your a casinomeister member I appreciate not totally disregarding me, but as a affy, and this isn’t to flame nor cause trouble... 

whats your opinion on my opening post?... 

 

[Nicola]

He didn’t lie, I’m man enough to admit such a poor use of vocabulary to him, he’s not lying. I wasn’t threatening or abusive at all, my tone and language however was less than decent... I hold my hands up to that, publicly... 

and I’m sorry for that... that was poor and rather pathetic judgement on my part. As your a casinomeister member I appreciate not totally disregarding me, but as a affy, and this isn’t to flame nor cause trouble... 

whats your opinion on my opening post?... 

I agree that some streamers are now using less reputable casinos, but no-one from CasinoGrounds are - that I'm certain of.

YouTube and Twitch are now being taken over by fake streamers (and re-streamers), and they are targeting UK players with unlicensed casinos which is causing a lot a issues. Everytime I report one to the UKGC, another one opens from Curaco.

It's hard to define a 'bad casino' these days as some players don't mind high wagering and slow withdrawals. One of the most popular brands I promote is Foxy Casino. They have the slowest pending period of any casino - averaging 80-100 hours, but because it's a known brand people accept it. I certainly wouldn't play there!

Us forum folk are a bit more savvy than the normal punter, we're always looking for the fastest withdrawals and best deals. The Casinomeister rogue list is a must-read and you should avoid them all like the plague.

 

[Playford7]

I agree that some streamers are now using less reputable casinos, but no-one from CasinoGrounds are - that I'm certain of.

YouTube and Twitch are now being taken over by fake streamers (and re-streamers), and they are targeting UK players with unlicensed casinos which is causing a lot a issues. Everytime I report one to the UKGC, another one opens from Curaco.

It's hard to define a 'bad casino' these days as some players don't mind high wagering and slow withdrawals. One of the most popular brands I promote is Foxy Casino. They have the slowest pending period of any casino - averaging 80-100 hours, but because it's a known brand people accept it. I certainly wouldn't play there!

Us forum folk are a bit more savvy than the normal punter, we're always looking for the fastest withdrawals and best deals. The Casinomeister rogue list is a must-read and you should avoid them all like the plague.

Oh I agree to some extent, I used to love bgo a few years back for some crazy reason, the live chat was hideous, always paid me late but I felt comfortable for some odd reason. 

I was eventually bonus banned for no reason at all back in 2017 and never returned. 

And I must say I disagree regarding the definition of a poor casino, personally if I was a affiliate, which I’m not... I’d have a simple checklist available for the places I may possibly promote, I get affiliation (without being harsh) is getting as many sign ups as possible to lose and continue to do so, but genuinely I couldn’t send another person to a casino that I knew deep down where most questionable...

payout times and pending periods, are they reputable, live chat and responsive, no insane max cashouts nor FU clauses in the terms...has the affiliate played there and experienced the casino??? I mean surerly can’t be to hard to vet and promote a decent casino, there are hundreds now... 

thats what makes me question why some streamers promote less than reputable ones?.. is it free cash they get?. Certain under the table deals?.. 

and totally agree a casinogrounds streamer wouldn’t do this, i like and speak to one from time to time, but nothing stopping another streamer using skullduggery to promote is there?.. that’s my point and you touched on it about YouTube now been flooded with re-streams and frankly rogue affiliates, I personally think a set platform for affiliates and streams would albeit quash all the anti streamer talk, especially if said platform was set up and managed by people in the know whom are reputable and honest. 

With regards to responsible gambling, when certain people obtain insane match bonuses of 300/400% that again is just frankly fake... the wagering for one will be so -ev is laughable, there also has to be max cashouts and max bet restrictions... and betting he amounts some do is just plain crazy, now people say £2 a sensible stake?.. really?.. a 100 quick spins on say drive from netent at that stake would leave you £200 down in less than 5/10 minutes.. That’s far from sensible, that’s just silly. Who can afford that from a normal working wage just playing slots?.. 

even chip, whom played the most sensible I’ve ever seen is now £6 a spin on montezuma... without the affy earnings and perks you would need one hell off a good job to subsidise such play. 

I have a good job, very good infact, the odd day I’ve blown Upto £800 onwards, but daily to me that’s unsustainable and would leave me homeless with nothing, it’s no real reflection in any sense to gambling watching a stream now. 

My favourite old videos where dazza’s, ranting and raving on a average persons deposit with average persons stakes, now it’s just frankly a circus of whom can place the biggest bets, for me personally it’s boring, it’s hardly a gamble as a streamer won’t gamble to make themselves lose lose money long term... just a business tactic. 

For some, newbies to online casinos I can certainly say what they see is dangerous, you can’t keep up or even try to emulate such play that a streamer makes daily... but I’m sure many have tried and ended up in a terrible position. 

Not the fault of the affy per se not directly, but they certainly had a massive influence.

thankyou for the response, I’m off to read the North Korea or mac tracing thread on CM now ?  

 

[Slotplayer]

For me it is important that a streamer promotes reputable casinos only. There is no excuse to research a casino first before promoting it. It is as simple as signing up first, getting verified, play and make some withdrawals to test the waters before committing to the promotion of it via the stream. At the end of the day, you are going to recommend the casino and who wants to be associated with promoting dodgy ones?

In terms of bet size, each to their own. Big bets don't do it for me because I don't associate it with my own slot play. As long as the streamer can afford it, then it is not for me to make a bad judgement on them so to speak.

 

[Playford7]

For me it is important that a streamer promotes reputable casinos only. There is no excuse to research a casino first before promoting it. It is as simple as signing up first, getting verified, play and make some withdrawals to test the waters before committing to the promotion of it via the stream. At the end of the day, you are going to recommend the casino and who wants to be associated with promoting dodgy ones?

In terms of bet size, each to their own. Big bets don't do it for me because I don't associate it with my own slot play. As long as the streamer can afford it, then it is not for me to make a bad judgement on them so to speak.

Good evening and thanks for the response. 

This was my original point, reputable casinos. Your aware as Iam as we are both casinomeister members, we know fully what’s a decent and trustworthy casino and what’s frankly dodgy as hell. This was my issue with my OP, the casinos mentioned I’d not touch with a barge pole, a really long one. 

So why promote such places unless it benefits the individuals privately?.. you know the casino world, we have literally dozens of white hat/caddell sites to choose from, granted slow pending periods and bonus bans, but reputable. 

We also have dozens of mt secure sites, so why literally choose casinos nobody has heard of with bad history’s and poor reputations?.. they genuinely must be a reason for this...

As you correctly state it it really doesn’t take a lot to find if a casino is reputable or not, a lot of the streamers now clearly don’t play there or don’t research properly what they promote. 

Regards to bet size, absolutely that’s personal preference in relation to what the individual can afford. But I’m talking streamers here, not the sign ups. 

There is zero way it’s responsible, as said many times ‘I’m only playing £2 stake today, sensible stake’ really?.. 100 spins gone in ten minutes, that’s £200... five times a day.. it’s not representative of real play one iota. 

I understand all the streamers are competing against others for the most views, and they do this by upping the stake to the point of laughability. And yes I won’t argue it’s entertaining as hell for some, but there’s a dark side to that. 

The reality of stakes and bet sizes, not to mention wins becomes blurred, now people only want mega rare 1000x wins or it’s a thumbs down, in reality how often does the average person hit that?... you know as well as me it’s super rare.

the sign ups watch, many no online experience at all and think it’s the norm, it’s not. I understand some streamers can afford it by massive revenue , possibly funded streams... but to promote that as responsible gambling as they all do is just plain silly. 

Thanks for the insightful reply, apriciate it.