Play and go rigged?

riggdrasil said:
Yesterday i lost 1350 euros on 1 euro bets on moon princess, reactoonz and book of dead.

150 on book of dead - no bonus round

100 - reactoonz - no gargatoon

1100 - moon princess - two bonus rounds that paid 22 and 36 euros.

There is bad luck and then there is play and go. Come on these kind of results are not normal? Never experienced anything like this at all. Its like the games didd not oay anything. Just dead spins non stop.

pretty sure if i continued it would have been no problem to lose 10-20-30k!!! It put me off gambling completley. This simply proves to me that it is rigged.
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They are the same for me sometimes. I've gone multiple thousands of spins without a Garga many times. I've been playing the 500 Reactoonz spins tournaments on rizk about 7 times now - have always gotten either 1 or 0 Gargas and have been consistently running 40-60% Rtp. Best one over 500 spins was 128% rtp, second best was 101% Rtp.

Basically over 3500 spins I've had 4-5 Gargas and running overall at around 70% rtp.

Perfectly normal

Perfectly aggravating.

Prior to these 3500 spins I got a 1500x Garga.

 
chiefemptybottle said:
I was more or less "forced" to conclude this after the mess these video's made - Read the Jammin' Jars provider statement (when a bonus is hit, a X time win are determined). What happens thereafter as they say are all pre-determined: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc53rrmxz34
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Jammin Jars is a slightly different case. It's more of a bag of results or a scratch card. So there is a pool of 1.2 million results and when you hit spin, it picks one of them and shows it to you. It's still a random game though, as those 1.2 million possible results average out to the stated RTP, and your chance of getting any one of them is 1 in 1.2 million.

For the majority of slots, the positions on the reels are what determine the outcome. Now, it is common that a game will determine all of the result up front (even the bonus round) as soon as you click the spin button. That's pretty standard practice actually (tho providers like BTG do hit the RNG for every single bonus spin). There is nothing wrong with this. Each spin is still the result of the reel positions generated by RNG for that spin.

You have to remember that, in almost all slots, a 'Spin' is defined as the point at you click the spin button to the point your total winnings are displayed and paid to you. This means 1 base spin and 50 free spins is all one 'spin'.

So in the coin flip example, if you were given 5 free spins on the coin, it would be like me doing 5 flips and recording a video of me doing them, then coming out and showing you the video. I still did 5 coin flips, they were still random, but the result was fully determined before you started watching.

Pre-determined does NOT mean rigged. Pre-determined results is absolutely fine, as long as it is done after you click spin, or, like Jammin Jars, it's a random selection from a pool of pre-generated results (although I hate Jammin Jars for this reason).

Xxxxwildingxxxx said:
How do you explain hot and cold games and when you have experience of 12 years you can tell hot or cold games that's one fact, why! it may not be directly rigged . but when you load a game it can the game be on take back and I believe  every provider works differently so not all but in general  , fair! but you can load up a game and be destined  to lose is pretty wrong, programming slots to achieve there target for player and for casino in the long run, anyone who doesn't  understand  hot and cold games and can't  relate to me doesn't have enough experience, i think most people who has 12 years of slots behind  them would agree but you will always get the one who will say %&$##%%%###. ill say it's not directly rigged but I can have a good high percent when I know when I'm going to lose my money because the program will achieve its goal !
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Slots simply aren't 'programmed' to achieve a target. They don't need to be. The maths does it for them through volume of play.

The simple fact is, you can't tell when a game is 'hot or cold'. You think you can, but you can't. If you could, you would be a millionaire because you would always win.

In a random set, it's very common to have 'hot' or 'cold' streaks within it. That is the nature of randomness.

 
The Reel Story said:
Jammin Jars is a slightly different case. It's more of a bag of results or a scratch card. So there is a pool of 1.2 million results and when you hit spin, it picks one of them and shows it to you. It's still a random game though, as those 1.2 million possible results average out to the stated RTP, and your chance of getting any one of them is 1 in 1.2 million.

For the majority of slots, the positions on the reels are what determine the outcome. Now, it is common that a game will determine all of the result up front (even the bonus round) as soon as you click the spin button. That's pretty standard practice actually (tho providers like BTG do hit the RNG for every single bonus spin). There is nothing wrong with this. Each spin is still the result of the reel positions generated by RNG for that spin.

You have to remember that, in almost all slots, a 'Spin' is defined as the point at you click the spin button to the point your total winnings are displayed and paid to you. This means 1 base spin and 50 free spins is all one 'spin'.

So in the coin flip example, if you were given 5 free spins on the coin, it would be like me doing 5 flips and recording a video of me doing them, then coming out and showing you the video. I still did 5 coin flips, they were still random, but the result was fully determined before you started watching.

Pre-determined does NOT mean rigged. Pre-determined results is absolutely fine, as long as it is done after you click spin, or, like Jammin Jars, it's a random selection from a pool of pre-generated results (although I hate Jammin Jars for this reason).

Slots simply aren't 'programmed' to achieve a target. They don't need to be. The maths does it for them through volume of play.

The simple fact is, you can't tell when a game is 'hot or cold'. You think you can, but you can't. If you could, you would be a millionaire because you would always win.

In a random set, it's very common to have 'hot' or 'cold' streaks within it. That is the nature of randomness.
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You work for provider I think so I wouldn'take  you opinion for granted and all providers are different,  they dont rigg directly but bit hot and cold is real and any slot player who knows slots can feel this to, some would not think about it some think its random, I speak for my self and I can tell at times when the slots cold especially with random features example Ted and king Kong cash, slots do have memory they know when you have done your achievements on immortal romance 
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The Reel Story said:
Jammin Jars is a slightly different case. It's more of a bag of results or a scratch card. So there is a pool of 1.2 million results and when you hit spin, it picks one of them and shows it to you. It's still a random game though, as those 1.2 million possible results average out to the stated RTP, and your chance of getting any one of them is 1 in 1.2 million.

For the majority of slots, the positions on the reels are what determine the outcome. Now, it is common that a game will determine all of the result up front (even the bonus round) as soon as you click the spin button. That's pretty standard practice actually (tho providers like BTG do hit the RNG for every single bonus spin). There is nothing wrong with this. Each spin is still the result of the reel positions generated by RNG for that spin.

You have to remember that, in almost all slots, a 'Spin' is defined as the point at you click the spin button to the point your total winnings are displayed and paid to you. This means 1 base spin and 50 free spins is all one 'spin'.

So in the coin flip example, if you were given 5 free spins on the coin, it would be like me doing 5 flips and recording a video of me doing them, then coming out and showing you the video. I still did 5 coin flips, they were still random, but the result was fully determined before you started watching.

Pre-determined does NOT mean rigged. Pre-determined results is absolutely fine, as long as it is done after you click spin, or, like Jammin Jars, it's a random selection from a pool of pre-generated results (although I hate Jammin Jars for this reason).

Slots simply aren't 'programmed' to achieve a target. They don't need to be. The maths does it for them through volume of play.

The simple fact is, you can't tell when a game is 'hot or cold'. You think you can, but you can't. If you could, you would be a millionaire because you would always win.

In a random set, it's very common to have 'hot' or 'cold' streaks within it. That is the nature of 
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I give the benifit of the doubt when I play slots and trust it's not cold and ignore my inner instincts that's why, knowing hot and cold slots wouldn't make you a millionaire  dont over hype as it's afine line and difficult to sense, but if you able it will give you some edge back notva millionaire likev you say 

Anyway I say this as none fact I wouldn't be surprised to much if slots are random, all slots are random as of we know

 
Xxxxwildingxxxx said:
You work for provider I think so I wouldn'take  you opinion for granted and all providers are different,  they dont rigg directly but bit hot and cold is real and any slot player who knows slots can feel this to, some would not think about it some think its random, I speak for my self and I can tell at times when the slots cold especially with random features example Ted and king Kong cash, slots do have memory they know when you have done your achievements on immortal romance 
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Ahh, the old 'You work for them so you want to protect the lie' line. It's a classic.

So, I USED to work in the industry. I haven't for over 4 years. And I was made redundant on pretty poor terms, so I have no reason to want to 'protect' the company or industry. Additionally, there are tens of thousands of people who work in the industry, over thousands of different companies in many different countries. You think ALL of them have somehow agreed to stick to this big wide conspiracy about how slots work? Especially disgruntled ex employees (of which there will be many). It's just not realistic. Like flat earthing, at some point you have to realise that the truth is actually far more simple than the lie.

So yeh, slots do not 'run hot or cold' as I said. The nature of random patterns do. Slots cannot be made to 'run hot or cold' (it would actually be very difficult to do and would throw up lots of issues with compliance reporting of RTP and accredited hashes of deployed software packages.). As I said, if you could tell when a slot is hot or cold, you would always win. This is part of the deep psychology of gambling. Veteran players think they understand the system, but their experience counts for absolutely nothing on slots.

As for tracjking achievements, yes, slots CAN have a memory. Anything can, and some have to track things, like lil devil with the hearts or whatever. But each spin is independent. I know you won't believe me, but it is ?

 
Xxxxwildingxxxx said:
Because the slots programme is fair and will do what it says on the tin 
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Well, basically, yes, because it's independently tested and verified and then continually monitored.

Slots are already in the house favour. There is simply no need to do anything else. Operator and provider licenses are worth millions to them, why would they risk their entire business when they already make a lot of money totally legally? It just doesn't make any sense.

Now I'm not saying providers and casino's don't do dodgy stuff, they do, absolutely. But the stuff they do is either legal (just about) or it's the type of illegal that would just get someone fired, or a slap on the wrist, or a small fine. I.E, low risk stuff like taking casino managers out for coke and strippers to get your game promoted or evading tax through creative accounting or having horrible T&C's that they use to avoid paying big wins, because they know most people don't read the T&C. These are all things that happen, but are very low risk to the companies. Rigging, or even massaging slots, risks your ENTIRE business. It's just not worth it.

BTW, I do absolutely understand where you're coming from. I often get the same feeling. I had it yesterday when Pheonix Sun ripped my entire balance from me. Part of my brain was saying 'This slot will kill you, you need to go' whereas another part was saying 'Well it's GOT to pay soon, surely'. So it's human nature, I'm not immune to it. I just know that those parts of my brain aren't really talking sense ?

 
Yes mate feels the same, book of dead it's like book of dead spins for like a month now pays nothing, low stakes and about 400f pounds and maybe 2 bonuses. Fells like it's slot it's collecting money for big wins next month or whenever 

 
It's feels like this is true someone posted on first page

The latest statistics on 2+2 indicate that Play'n'Go does have a documented "Collect loses period" after someone hit a huge win. Which mean that the frequencies of larger wins are reduced down to an unknown number until they "can afford giving out huge wins". I don't think the streamers have an edge. They are just more visible than the anonymous crowd which also have huge winners ..

 
There was a guy who won the Rizk Book of Dead £1000 race and then the next day won the Rizk Rise of Merlin £1000 race. He got the exact same score in both of them after 500 spins.

Twilight Zone

 
Also to win it you have to gamble every win to a 10x win, so he had the exact same amount of wins that were either 10x to start with or gamble up to 10x, the only variable would be if he won three 10x in a row but that would alter his score and to get it back to even with the other one he would have to do that 10 times which, as it would equate to thirty 10x wins would account for 67% of his score. Possible I guess.

The moral of this story is that I should really get a life.

 
Can you please, please read up on: 

  • RNG (Hardware: Random Number Generator)
  • PRGN (Software Random Number Generator)
  • Independent certifications
  • Critical code, RNG and game logic baselining
  • Die -hard tests
  • Chi-square tests
Go through the documentation of iTech Labs as an example of how slots are certified. 

Once everyone has read that, you can come back to this thread instead of discussing the results of non-bit level sample sizes. If you're still not convinced, I can sell you self-made tinfoil hats made from the finest aluminium at a heavily discounted rate. 

 
chiefemptybottle said:
Another example is, that MrGreen never put public race-lists online. You actually don't know what place you get. I wrote them 10-15 times last year without any progress. Those lists are still not available for the players to see. Every time they answered that question they kept going back to "What was the question again?". I filed a complaint to the gaming authorities without any luck.  So, those authorities doesn't do much to protect the players. Purpose for them is to have an expensive address, drink coffee and eat expensive cupcakes.
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Yeah, I have encountered this a lot as I seek out such promotions.

I don't play any promotion which cites "your position on the Leaderboard" and then doesn't actually show the Leaderboard publicly.

You could win and the casino could say you came third and you would have no way of proving anything. Not saying this is absolutely what they do, just saying the lack of transparency causes discomfort.

WHG show their leaderboards throughout the term of their promotions but don't publish the final leaderboard.  Their promotions are nowhere near as good as last year so I don't care too much.

Rizk, Guts - absolute transparency with their leaderboards - show them throughout promotions, though the scores reflect what they were the day before, and they publish a final leaderboard.

Unibet has live Leaderboards and they Update every few seconds - The best really, despite people exploiting certain promotions.

 
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CGDL said:
Can you please, please read up on: 

  • RNG (Hardware: Random Number Generator)
  • PRGN (Software Random Number Generator)
  • Independent certifications
  • Critical code, RNG and game logic baselining
  • Die -hard tests
  • Chi-square tests
Go through the documentation of iTech Labs as an example of how slots are certified. 

Once everyone has read that, you can come back to this thread instead of discussing the results of non-bit level sample sizes. If you're still not convinced, I can sell you self-made tinfoil hats made from the finest aluminium at a heavily discounted rate. 
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Run them test when you think it's cold and compare when you think it's hot, it shouldn't matter right because of no memory, let me guarantee a difference 

 
I think slots fairly programmed and an end result of millions of spins would end up fair so hot and cold doesn't really make a difference. Any way I could be wrong it's just opinion I have and I'll do what that guy said read up on it and at least I'll get some education on how it works and then I could well have a better view about it. Just seems hot and cold at times one theory I believe  the randomness is part of that cold patch which still is random hence hot patch to. But know one is ever sure when to stay on a game or to leave! My opinion it's fair yes I come to that conclusion but random patch of cold and hot games is there, when they should re program for it to be random per spin! But I dunno, 

 
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