Leoventures owning 51% of Casinogrounds forum and streaming platform

[NudgeShuffle]

On 14/03/2018 at 20:26, soto said:

At the same time, this ignore from the ownes. Don't know why I bother really.

Hi Soto,

I thought your posts were a good read and quite thought provoking so don't be too despondent.

Regards

[SuperSmask]

Hey @soto sry for not responding earlier, but have been busy with work, housing society and my stream

When re-reading your post, I see that it was taken as an example.

1. Giveaways: I know that CG did have a giveaway last year (maybe more than one?? don't know as I wasn't hugely involved back then). How much of the total budget it was (all giveaways in total), I have no idea. You might be right that it's wasn't 20%. But in the future you might not be wrong either. Just keep in mind, giveaways can be tricky, because not all are legal, needs to follow some specific rules (from what I know, don't slaughter me if I'm wrong )
2. Affiliate money is not as easy as you stated above. But lets just say 50% of 100000$. So 50000$ to CG. You need to account for casino fees, which actually are quite significant on some sites. Also need to tax it as well. And then you need to take into consideration, that people also win sometimes . This also eats into the profit made on affiliate money. I would say you at least need to remove like 30000$ from the 50000$ that would prob. be an accurate nr. (this is my calculation, might be off though)
3. The thing you mention with streamers being paid by CG (more than individually), is not gonna happen. I actually dislike the idea myself, as it would feel like I was "working" (don't like that word, when im playing for entertainment) for "someone". Hope you understand what I mean.
4. I can tell you that CG are trying to get the best deals they can for their players. It's not easy to get exclusive deals. But like u said it helps if it involves a lot of People. On Highroller I know you get extra coins on every level up, and some special bonuses on specific level ups. I know this might not sound like much, because there's no value attached to it, but it's something you won't get elsewhere. In the end it's up to you to decide if it's worth it. CG are really working hard on this as I know they are passionate about their players, getting the best they can get.

I don't mind the Rambling , and I think you have some good ideas and views the subject. I absolutely don't see your post as a negative post against CG, very constructive and like you said concerns for the future. I agree that the cornerstone of this site is the community we have here, without it, there is no CG.

Smask out 

[soto]

Hey, thanks @NudgeShuffle 

@SuperSmask I get what you are saying. This streaming casino business is quite new, and a lot will probably change. But as the community grow and when the players now have a chance to communicate, I belive it will get to a point where the players will start demanding more. (judging from this thread, that time has not come yet though, hehe)

I will try to be short regarding your points.

1. Yes, this would be something that would need to be figured out, one thing beeing the legal issue. But in CG's case, they are now owned by leo that have connections in both malta and gibraltar, so in my mind there shouldn't be a problem getting something like this working. I'm no lawyer though 
    
2. What your talking about is revshare, that's one type of affiliation. In my opinion the worst kind though, now when casino streamers have a community behind them. (people who dont know can google: revshare cpa hybrid)
   
   Then there are taxes (it depends how they have set it up though, e.g https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Gibraltar) and other things, so how much that would go back to the community would have to be figured out. Again, 20% was just a random number from me.
   
   Could you tell me more about the "casino fees", what kind of fees are you refering to?
   
   As for how much big streamers earn, I just know they make alot. There is a reason why leo bought 51% for 30 million SEK, and potentially 15 million SEK more down the line. So I believe they would be just fine even if they share some wealth with the community players. And if they dont, I think someone else will in time.
    
3. Yes I understand, and another thing would be that you also had to give up some of the affiliation money, which I dont think you would be so happy about. 
   
   But think about it, if there is a community where the players have a chance to get a piece of the cake (as long as they are playing through the affiliate links and are loyal to that community), like with the jackpots and stuff I was talking about. 
   
   Do you think you would be able to compete with that by yourself? In my mind casino streamers would either have to start doing the same thing themself, or join the community as a streamer to have a chanse of recruiting players by streaming. So I think you would have to choose from joining the community as a streamer or try recruiting some other way away from streaming in that scenario.
   
   As a entertainment streamer maybe you would be alowed to use ur own links, but the players using your link would loose the ability to be part of some of the community prices. Or something like that maybe. But would people use ur link?
    
4. Ok, if people are happy with some extra coins by level up so be it. But if you look from the community players point of view, wouldn't the smartest thing be to get together and just agree to use a "communal" affiliate link where they would have a a chance to get some cash back?

Now you're a "entertainment" streamer, but maybe one day you want to have streaming as your job. Lets say that you then were totaly transparent with how much affiliate money that comes in. And maybe had a overlay saying "Current affiliate pot" (which was a percentage of your total earnings). And the players that would have a chance to win from that pot would only be players using your affiliate links. I don't see why anyone would use any other affiliate links then yours, and before long I think you would become one of the biggest streams.

Thats just what I think.

And yeah... can't seem to keep it short sorry 

[SuperSmask]

Hey @soto got some time to give you my thoughts 

On 18/3/2018 at 01:44, soto said:

What your talking about is revshare, that's one type of affiliation. In my opinion the worst kind though, now when casino streamers have a community behind them. (people who dont know can google: revshare cpa hybrid)

Im not only talking about revshare, as a hydbrid deal is also dependent on revshare. Lets assume a signup on one site is like 30€ (just a nr.) in CPA. And well say 100 signups in a month (example). The 30€ is only paid IF min. deposit stated in the deal is met. This is also a ONE time payout, for each customer. Remember not all signups will deposit min. amount, in fact you'll be doing pretty good if 50% do. You wan't to keep this up every month, but it's damn diff. to do so.

On 18/3/2018 at 01:44, soto said:

Could you tell me more about the "casino fees", what kind of fees are you refering to?

Admin fees apply to all deposits. They range from anywhere between 10-30% of the deposited amount (from what I have experienced). From what I know it only applies to revshare.

On 18/3/2018 at 01:44, soto said:

As for how much big streamers earn, I just know they make alot.

We absolutely agree on that 

On 18/3/2018 at 01:44, soto said:

Yes I understand, and another thing would be that you also had to give up some of the affiliation money, which I dont think you would be so happy about. 

But think about it, if there is a community where the players have a chance to get a piece of the cake (as long as they are playing through the affiliate links and are loyal to that community), like with the jackpots and stuff I was talking about. 

Do you think you would be able to compete with that by yourself? In my mind casino streamers would either have to start doing the same thing themself, or join the community as a streamer to have a chanse of recruiting players by streaming. So I think you would have to choose from joining the community as a streamer or try recruiting some other way away from streaming in that scenario.

As a entertainment streamer maybe you would be alowed to use ur own links, but the players using your link would loose the ability to be part of some of the community prices. Or something like that maybe. But would people use ur link?
 

I will keep it short . I wouldn't be losing anything compared to others. Like u say, I would prob. have a diff. time competing with it. But don't forget the fact that people have personal preference in streamers. Some are not in it for the giveaways/prizes. Don't get me wrong im all for giving as much back to viewers as poss.. A lot of my viewers (won't speak for others) have specifically told me they're not in my stream for giveaways. Still doing one though when I hit 1000 follows  (don't care what they say, LOL)

The one thing I don't like is, I would get the feeling im "working". Ill reserve that for when I actually work. Like I said I earlier (i think, in an earlier post), this is a "hobby", an expensive one albeit.

On 18/3/2018 at 01:44, soto said:

Now you're a "entertainment" streamer, but maybe one day you want to have streaming as your job. Lets say that you then were totaly transparent with how much affiliate money that comes in. And maybe had a overlay saying "Current affiliate pot" (which was a percentage of your total earnings). And the players that would have a chance to win from that pot would only be players using your affiliate links. I don't see why anyone would use any other affiliate links then yours, and before long I think you would become one of the biggest streams.

I really like my current work and I know for sure that thats money I can count on every month. Another thing is it would go from hobby to work, if I was to stream full time. Im pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it as much, as I do now.

I think you got some good ideas @soto, but I think there's more to streaming than giveaways. Some people will blindly follow streamers, because they connect with that streamer. Doesn't matter what the giveaways are. But Im all for better deals and I'm pretty sure CG strive to give the best deals they possible can.

[Journalist]

Just wanted to ask if those 30m SEK where deposited to Billymilton AB (559066-7464) and if CasinoGrounds now are GamingGrounds United AB (559122-5460)