45 000 euros at stake, need advice / Read topic pls

[Jadnici]

So on Saturday at 3 am I made a deposit on the casino I wont name here but is one of few that have licence for online gambling under my country laws.

Deposit was 95 euros and 1st game I played was virtual BJ where I managed to 2x my balance. After that I started playing also virtual three card poker (Habanero).

For some unknown reason game was paying like 2 out of 3 hands and side bets were hiting. So that starting balance went from 95 euros to 40 000 euros in span of 5 hours. In that 5 hours I logged out from account like 10 times and closed game like 15 times just to confirm to myself game is working fine.

To clarify things I have played 1200+ hands and every hand in history logs has reference number, date, hour and the outcome of the game with no a single hand malfunctioning.

Now comes 10 am where I am automaticaly logged out of my account and after contacting customer support via email they said that they are having "system upgrade". To this day I am not able to log in. That system upgrade comes out as a lie after 10 emails. Somehow I managed to pull info from them that something was sent to game provider ( Habanero) and that at this moment they cant give me any more information. 

Problem for me is that they wont state what is that they think that problem is and wont give me a reason why was my account blocked and didnt offer me a time frame of resolving this.

Now I need advice from you guys. Is it still early to report this to the goverment company that has jurisdiction over casinos or should I wait.

What do I if they dont pay and under what reasons could they claim that I shouldnt be payed my money. Is it to soon to get a lawyer or something?

If anyone is willing to help I would be grateful.

 

 

 

 

[Nordog]

Usually if the game is malfunctioning, all pays are void. With your description I'm sure that's what happened , since you logged out and in to confirm. 

[Samirbakaou]

I would still contact the gambling authority in your country. It is not that easy for the operator to just say that it is a malfunction. 

[Jadnici]

50 minutes ago, Nordog said:

Usually if the game is malfunctioning, all pays are void. With your description I'm sure that's what happened , since you logged out and in to confirm. 

What did I confirm? I confirmed that game is working normaly and it loads and works properly. If game is paying more than 100% RTP its malfunction???? What if they fcked up and had those versions of game that pay too much to show wins for presentation of game. That is not a malfunction but their mistake.

Edited 11 January, 2022 by Jadnici

[joshnadin]

The game was clearly not operating as intended, this has happened many times in the past to people and always ends up with the same result.

Every casino game will have written into the game rules that 'malfunction voids all pays and plays'. Essentially meaning that if situations like this happen, the casino are covered to remove any associated winnings from a game that is not operating correctly.

However, in the past people clearly knowing a game is paying out much more than what it should do have been successful in cashing out before the casino have got onto them. This was done by taking advantage of the game by 'winning' small amounts at a time, and not requesting any 'large' cashouts.
Seeing as you span 95 Euros to 40K, before approving the withdrawal the casino will naturally look at your gameplay and will be able to see that something is not right.

The casino will not state what the problem is until they absolutely have to do. This is to protect themselves from any potential legal recourse and saying something that will get them in trouble before knowing exactly what happened, and have consulted their legal team in regard to how to approach this.

In previous situations where this has happened, players generally only get their deposit back, and any winnings associated with that specific game that is not operating properly will be void. You may get a small amount of compensation for what's happened.

You can try to fight this with by placing a complaint with the relevant licensing authority or ECOGRA. However, historically this has never been successful. The casinos risk and compliance department and legal team will be writing a very carefully worded email as we speak if they haven't done so already, highlighting that the game was not operating as intended, and why this means that you will unfortunately not get any winnings from it. They will have already contacted the game provider for evidence that the game was faulty to provide if a complaint is made and an investigation happens.

[Jadnici]

11 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

The game was clearly not operating as intended, this has happened many times in the past to people and always ends up with the same result.

Every casino game will have written into the game rules that 'malfunction voids all pays and plays'. Essentially meaning that if situations like this happen, the casino are covered to remove any associated winnings from a game that is not operating correctly.

However, in the past people clearly knowing a game is paying out much more than what it should do have been successful in cashing out before the casino have got onto them. This was done by taking advantage of the game by 'winning' small amounts at a time, and not requesting any 'large' cashouts.
Seeing as you span 95 Euros to 40K, before approving the withdrawal the casino will naturally look at your gameplay and will be able to see that something is not right.

The casino will not state what the problem is until they absolutely have to do. This is to protect themselves from any potential legal recourse and saying something that will get them in trouble before knowing exactly what happened, and have consulted their legal team in regard to how to approach this.

In previous situations where this has happened, players generally only get their deposit back, and any winnings associated with that specific game that is not operating properly will be void. You may get a small amount of compensation for what's happened.

You can try to fight this with by placing a complaint with the relevant licensing authority or ECOGRA. However, historically this has never been successful. The casinos risk and compliance department and legal team will be writing a very carefully worded email as we speak if they haven't done so already, highlighting that the game was not operating as intended, and why this means that you will unfortunately not get any winnings from it. They will have already contacted the game provider for evidence that the game was faulty to provide if a complaint is made and an investigation happens.

Now there comes part of this where I had played other games after this like roulete and reactonz where I had some big wins. If they trail this as to not pay how can they claim what amount of money was won by playing that broken game and what came from other games. Since that 95e deposit I did not double at first on that game but played some bj first. I should be able to claim those wins from total balance.

"The game was clearly not operating as intended..." So should we all start claiming that games dont work properly when we lose thousands with like 30%-40% rtp on some slots or we should say like they do that rtp% is based around all player. Why wouldnt I claim that here that if I won this much someone lost. Right?

Edited 11 January, 2022 by Jadnici

[joshnadin]

1 minute ago, Jadnici said:

Now there comes part of this where I had played other games after this like roulete and reactonz where I had some big wins. If they trail this as to not pay how can they claim what amount of money was won by playing that broken game and what came from other games. Since that 95e deposit I did not double at first on that game but played some bj first. I should be able to claim those wins from total balance.

They will be going though your entire bet history and looking at what money came from where, and should allow you to keep a any portion of your money that you had that didn't come from the proceeds of the game that was not operating correctly. They will also take into consideration if you would have had the money to bet on the other games if you didn't have the proceeds from said game, plus some other factors.

Due to this being time intensive, this is also likely a reason why things are taking so long.

This does depend on them being a reputable casino with a good license though, if its a Curacao licensed casino or a crypto-casino, things may work out differently as they know there's pretty much nothing you can do in terms of recourse.

[Jadnici]

3 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

They will be going though your entire bet history and looking at what money came from where, and should allow you to keep a any portion of your money that you had that didn't come from the proceeds of the game that was not operating correctly. They will also take into consideration if you would have had the money to bet on the other games if you didn't have the proceeds from said game, plus some other factors.

Due to this being time intensive, this is also likely a reason why things are taking so long.

This does depend on them being a reputable casino with a good license though, if its a Curacao licensed casino or a crypto-casino, things may work out differently as they know there's pretty much nothing you can do in terms of recourse.

So if game malfunctioned all the people who ever played that game on that site can comeback and claim that game wasnt working properly when they lost money right? How could they prove it worked properly before, maybe everyone lost few hands and didnt bother playing it anymore?

[joshnadin]

Just now, Jadnici said:

So if game malfunctioned all the people who ever played that game on that site can comeback and claim that game wasnt working properly when they lost money right?

No, they can't. Because the game logs from the provider will show when the game was, and wasn't working correctly. They will be able to provide this in the event that a complaint is made and an investigation is needed.

Also, it's clear that the malfunction caused the game to payout much more than it should have done. Not that it was taking more money than the expected RTP.
I get what you're saying, but the casino and provider are fully covered from events such as this.

[Jadnici]

4 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

No, they can't. Because the game logs from the provider will show when the game was, and wasn't working correctly. They will be able to provide this in the event that a complaint is made and an investigation is needed.

Also, it's clear that the malfunction caused the game to payout much more than it should have done. Not that it was taking more money than the expected RTP.
I get what you're saying, but the casino and provider are fully covered from events such as this.

What would game logs show different when game is working or not working properly?

[joshnadin]

Just now, Jadnici said:

What would game logs show different when game is working or not working properly?

There would be clearly something wrong with the coding of the game, and/or a bug which the game provider would be able to show correlating to each bet you have made.

Plus, they could show that that the game was paying out at a ridiculous 1000% RTP or something, whilst showing evidence of a time where the game operating 'correctly' in comparison to validate that there was an error.

There are numerous different ways to show that the game was not operating as intended for the period of time you were playing.
But, common sense more than anything.
I don't even need to see the game logs to tell you that something was wrong, and the game shouldn't have acted as it did. Any regulator will also come to the same conclusion and come back to the most important term and condition of every casino game - as previously stated, 'malfunction voids all pays and plays'.

[Jadnici]

15 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

There would be clearly something wrong with the coding of the game, and/or a bug which the game provider would be able to show correlating to each bet you have made.

Plus, they could show that that the game was paying out at a ridiculous 1000% RTP or something, whilst showing evidence of a time where the game operating 'correctly' in comparison to validate that there was an error.

There are numerous different ways to show that the game was not operating as intended for the period of time you were playing.
But, common sense more than anything.
I don't even need to see the game logs to tell you that something was wrong, and the game shouldn't have acted as it did. Any regulator will also come to the same conclusion and come back to the most important term and condition of every casino game - as previously stated, 'malfunction voids all pays and plays'.

But lets say what if they had like that version of game that is made to pay to show of wins. What then if they fucked up there that isnt mulfunction.

[joshnadin]

1 hour ago, Jadnici said:

But lets say what if they had like that version of game that is made to pay to show of wins. What then if they fucked up there that isnt mulfunction.

They don't have a version to show off wins.

Look, we could dance around all day about 'what ifs' but the same end result is reached in every one of them.
A quick Google about similar and/or the exact same thing happening will show you this.

I think you should raise a complaint and try your best to get the money and would be super happy for you if you did!
Do I think you have less than a 1% chance of being successful? Yes. But, you won't lose anything from trying.
In terms of getting legal advice to try and claim against them, I would advise against it as you'll be investing money into something where you're extremely likely to not get anything back. But of course, I'm not telling you what to do with your money nor provide any financial advice. So that's up to you.

[Jadnici]

7 minutes ago, joshnadin said:

They don't have a version to show off wins.

Look, we could dance around all day about 'what ifs' but the same end result is reached in every one of them.
A quick Google about similar and/or the exact same thing happening will show you this.

I think you should raise a complaint and try your best to get the money and would be super happy for you if you did!
Do I think you have less than a 1% chance of being successful? Yes. But, you won't lose anything from trying.
In terms of getting legal advice to try and claim against them, I would advise against it as you'll be investing money into something where you're extremely likely to not get anything back. But of course, I'm not telling you what to do with your money nor provide any financial advice. So that's up to you.

If I dont manage to get that money I will try to claim other wins and if that is not successful u always have newspaper to atleast ruin their reputation in someway.

[joshnadin]

2 minutes ago, Jadnici said:

If I dont manage to get that money I will try to claim other wins and if that is not successful u always have newspaper to atleast ruin their reputation in someway.

That's up to you man!

Like I said, I really hope you are successful and I always want to see people win against casinos. They're happy to make money from the players so I won't feel sorry for them losing out on 40K. It's not like they can't afford it!
I don't mean to come across as negative, I've just provided my experience within the industry to you in the most realistic way possible, whilst using case studies and examples of others who have been in the exact same situation.
I know how casinos operate when it comes to things like this, and have even been part of dealing with situations such as this from their perspective.

The last thing I will say though is that you fully well know that you took advantage of something working as it shouldn't to your benefit. The media will consider the viewpoint of the casino too, and must give them the opportunity to comment on the situation, where they will be able to say they've stuck to their Terms of Service, which they have. As heart-breaking as thinking you are going to get 40K is, you've not been treated unfairly or lost out on anything.

As previously mentioned, if you would have tried cashing out much lower amounts and staying under the radar, you likely would have gotten away with it for a good while. Once they've paid you, they can't legally make you give it back. They could ask, but legally you could just say no.
It's the same principal as walking into a physical shop and seeing a Rolex priced at $10 which you know is worth $10,000.
You take it to the cashier to try and pay for it, and if they let you have it at that price, cool. The transaction has taken place and an agreement was formed. However, if they notice that something is wrong and it shouldn't be the way it is, they don't have any obligation to honour a clear mistake at a point where it can be rectified before the transaction is completed.

But, best of luck mate!

[biggestdosser]

void is most probable

[Davidr1978]

What so when casino's rip you to death with predetermined results controlled via software designed to get everyone playing every day they call it "random" and hide behind Rng algorithms and regulator tests that do not replicate a players controlled account. But when the software fucks up and benefits the player then it's not "random" and is put down to a malfunction lol. Make your fucking minds up is it random or not? 

[qwerty]

I REALLY hope you get your money, just read the whole thread.. Disgusting if you don't get the money, since it's their fault most likely. Crossing my fingers for you! 

[dirtystack]

11 hours ago, Davidr1978 said:

What so when casino's rip you to death with predetermined results controlled via software designed to get everyone playing every day they call it "random" and hide behind Rng algorithms and regulator tests that do not replicate a players controlled account. But when the software fucks up and benefits the player then it's not "random" and is put down to a malfunction lol. Make your fucking minds up is it random or not? 

I don't think software malfunctions are part of the overall RNG calculation the games are based on.

 

[casio]

What casino was this? 

[Jadnici]

On 11/01/2022 at 23:35, joshnadin said:

That's up to you man!

Like I said, I really hope you are successful and I always want to see people win against casinos. They're happy to make money from the players so I won't feel sorry for them losing out on 40K. It's not like they can't afford it!
I don't mean to come across as negative, I've just provided my experience within the industry to you in the most realistic way possible, whilst using case studies and examples of others who have been in the exact same situation.
I know how casinos operate when it comes to things like this, and have even been part of dealing with situations such as this from their perspective.

The last thing I will say though is that you fully well know that you took advantage of something working as it shouldn't to your benefit. The media will consider the viewpoint of the casino too, and must give them the opportunity to comment on the situation, where they will be able to say they've stuck to their Terms of Service, which they have. As heart-breaking as thinking you are going to get 40K is, you've not been treated unfairly or lost out on anything.

As previously mentioned, if you would have tried cashing out much lower amounts and staying under the radar, you likely would have gotten away with it for a good while. Once they've paid you, they can't legally make you give it back. They could ask, but legally you could just say no.
It's the same principal as walking into a physical shop and seeing a Rolex priced at $10 which you know is worth $10,000.
You take it to the cashier to try and pay for it, and if they let you have it at that price, cool. The transaction has taken place and an agreement was formed. However, if they notice that something is wrong and it shouldn't be the way it is, they don't have any obligation to honour a clear mistake at a point where it can be rectified before the transaction is completed.

But, best of luck mate!

Do you have some examples like this because all I can find on internet are jackpot glitches

[joshnadin]

1 hour ago, Jadnici said:

Do you have some examples like this because all I can find on internet are jackpot glitches

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The software issue section of complaints on AskGamblers also has many other examples of other people in the same boat as you, if you can be bothered to fish through them and take a look.

If you want to trawl through Reddit, you can find more examples in legal advice subreddits, and in gamblers subreddits too. Plus, I'm guessing a few other places. They are there, just for some reason Google seems to prioritize jackpot malfunctions, probably as they're so high-profile and generate a lot of traffic.

Edited 14 January, 2022 by joshnadin

[Jadnici]

1 hour ago, joshnadin said:

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The software issue section of complaints on AskGamblers also has many other examples of other people in the same boat as you, if you can be bothered to fish through them and take a look.

If you want to trawl through Reddit, you can find more examples in legal advice subreddits, and in gamblers subreddits too. Plus, I'm guessing a few other places. They are there, just for some reason Google seems to prioritize jackpot malfunctions, probably as they're so high-profile and generate a lot of traffic.

So this was on saturday and they still havent resolved this if something was wrong wouldnt they see it by now. Will they go through every single hand that I played (1200+ hands) and how do they prove every hand was glitched?

 

Edited 14 January, 2022 by Jadnici

[joshnadin]

4 hours ago, Jadnici said:

So this was on saturday and they still havent resolved this if something was wrong wouldnt they see it by now.

As you can see from multiple posts on this forum, providers take weeks to respond to tech tickets for even small game errors where a bonus round is stuck. Compiling all of the data is going to take a long time. Deciding what to do with the data when they receive it is going to take a long time.
I wouldn't get your hopes up that you will get an answer from them quickly.

5 hours ago, Jadnici said:

Will they go through every single hand that I played (1200+ hands) and how do they prove every hand was glitched?

Going through every bet that was made is standard procedure for any good casino. If they will or not, I can't say.
All they will need is confirmation from the game provider that the game was not functioning correctly during your session, what that will look like exactly or if you will ever see it, I don't know.

[Scribblen]

Pm me what casino, and If it’s not resolved and with info whats going on, i got some friends in the casino industry