Streamers advantages & RTP/Big wins (another it's RIGGED thread)

[dirtystack]

11 hours ago, olempiaps said:

@dirtystack

Is for sure more knowledgeable on this topic then us, however not sure if i agree on how you go about this to be fair. 
If someone talks about something in the oil industry, am i right to belittle anything they say and mock them for my own entertainment Because i have worked on a oil rig and know everything better then them? And everyone is wrong only i am right? 
 

Sad to see this kind of behaviour from a grown man no offense. 

No offense taken.

I'd not talking from a position where I am convinced I am right and believe others to be wrong. My position is that if you are going to make a post saying a law, code of conduct, procedure or legislation is not been adhered to then you should be aware of what that particular law, code of conduct, procedure or legislation is. I'm not say that, when you sense something is been compromised, you should have some innate knowledge of these laws but rather that; as the laws, codes of conduct, procedures and legislation is all available to the public, a little bit of investigation would empower the OP.

That is all I am saying and I don't really understand how you can argue against it.

[teckiwi]

I think theres some suspect stuff with streamers claiming to do 10-20k euro raw bonus hunts who stream long hours betting upwards of 12euros a spin..

it's like roth..whoever. fake af

[beetaillight]

I have an honest question to all streamers who view this thread @Slotspinner@LetsGiveItASpin @Nick@Spintwix @Jamjarboy@roseyreels@gamble_gangsta@Takethehit@Casinolandstreaming@Huneasd and others:

If you were to find out a provider is actually rigging your RTP to give you more big wins more frequently or changing your RTP somehow to be better than regular players - would you stop playing those slots? If you found out Push Gaming is rigging RTP, would you stop playing Razor Shark and Jammin' Jars?

As streaming becomes more popular, companies will find those backdoors and loopholes in everything to try and promote their products. You are considered "celebrities" in this world, but you're also providing to your family and have to think about your income and not only your reputation, so this is not as simple a question if it was only about a specific casino which you can easily dump.

What if most provider will prove to be rigging RTP... will you stop playing all these slots?

Try to be honest. I don't think any answer will diminish your status...

Edited 24 January, 2021 by beetaillight

[beetaillight]

Quick update: Another 5000x hit on a famous streamer today on Lil Devil, a slot I rarely see them play. I've been grinding this lot specifically for over 13000 spins, 18 heartstoppers and best win was x1200. Maybe it is just my bad luck... who knows. Just throwing some numbers again.

[dirtystack]

1200x in 18 heartstoppers sounds pretty lucky to me.

 

 

 

 

[Snoopdon78]

1 hour ago, beetaillight said:

Quick update: Another 5000x hit on a famous streamer today on Lil Devil, a slot I rarely see them play. I've been grinding this lot specifically for over 13000 spins, 18 heartstoppers and best win was x1200. Maybe it is just my bad luck... who knows. Just throwing some numbers again.

Hi @beetaillight, I would agree that due to streamers having editors and wealth, it would appear that they get an unreasonable RTP, but on every stream and every affiliate site I have ever visited they post multiple warnings about the dangers of gambling.

You view a small, small proportion of what they actually have to sit through to produce content.

Some of them will post the good and the bad, but when you have a brand to build, surely you must understand that they good stuff sells???

I am an avid gambler, have been for years and years and it's is only in the last few months that I have hit anything that is note worthy.

In the space of 3 weeks I have had a £10k cash out at Leo and a £5k cash out @ Playzee, both on low stakes 20p and 50p respectively.

So now that I have hit 50000x and 10050x, should I consider the slots rigged for me?? Or was I just lucky enough to have wagered the right bet at the right time?

Streamers play for longer and bet a LOT more than the average gambler. Don't you think that some of the hits they get might just be deserved of the effort they put in to produce entertainment for us plebs?

Simple fact is, only bet what you can afford. Don't chase big wins and be happy if you can turn this wonderful form of entertainment into a profit.

Much love to all the CG family,

Don

[shirleytaney]

@beetaillight The streamers here would never admit to any of this. 
 

CG sold a majority of its shares to Leovegas. Leo were exposed a few years ago as giving fake money to streamers. CG just gloss over it. 
 

It’s abundantly clear there are many things going on behind the scenes with streamers and casinos. Adjusted RTP is only one of them possibly and I would think certainly on a number of casinos.

Affiliation money and deposit bonuses make it all massively plus EV. @LetsGiveItASpinstates he was only slightly up last year but it’s rubbish. He’s up thousands from players losses. 
 

It would be good if someone could provide proof of adjusted RTP for streamers, but from streamers themselves you will never get honesty with anything when it comes to their ‘business’ 

[beetaillight]

15 hours ago, shirleytaney said:

@beetaillight The streamers here would never admit to any of this. 
 

CG sold a majority of its shares to Leovegas. Leo were exposed a few years ago as giving fake money to streamers. CG just gloss over it. 
 

It’s abundantly clear there are many things going on behind the scenes with streamers and casinos. Adjusted RTP is only one of them possibly and I would think certainly on a number of casinos.

Affiliation money and deposit bonuses make it all massively plus EV. @LetsGiveItASpinstates he was only slightly up last year but it’s rubbish. He’s up thousands from players losses. 
 

It would be good if someone could provide proof of adjusted RTP for streamers, but from streamers themselves you will never get honesty with anything when it comes to their ‘business’ 

Thanks for the info. It is unfortunate to hear but very understandable.

This is a money industry and money will always win. None of the streamers have responded obviously, as much as I thought.

All I can offer at this point is a word of advice to the viewers - don't trust what you see on streams, be it streams made by legit streamers or illegitimate ones.

The ways to manipulate stream content is increasing as time goes by and trust casinos and providers to find the ways to make it look like streamers are winning just the right amount of time to lure unsuspecting viewers to deposit.

Please, before you deposit, think about why you're depositing to this casino and if it's mostly because your favorite streamer is hitting there crazy wins, just don't deposit. You will not get the same results almost ever. Doesn't matter if it's because of ridiculous 100-200-300% reload bonuses or manipulated RTP.

I must say, on a personal note, that i'm disappointed from the streamers registered here as I find a lot of them pretty intelligent are good people but seem reluctant to cooperate or pursue anything in these lines. Even @Jamjarboywho claimed to get only "bonuses the rest of you get", has switched to high stakes deposits and big bonuses like the rest of them... they all fall in line with the industry.

Remember people, it's ALL fake - everything you watch on stream.

It's like the 25 year old model on TV who is selling anti-age creams. I mean - look at her... not a single wrinkle.

Good luck to everyone.

Edited 26 January, 2021 by beetaillight

[olempiaps]

Once again this is not news. 
i work in the sales industry and not one day goes by without small hoaxes/small lies either by colleagues people in the same industry or heck Even myself just to sell. 
 

On other news, the sky was reported to be blue today...

[beetaillight]

4 minutes ago, olempiaps said:

Once again this is not news. 
i work in the sales industry and not one day goes by without small hoaxes/small lies either by colleagues people in the same industry or heck Even myself just to sell. 
 

On other news, the sky was reported to be blue today...

I disagree.

Twitch and streaming is a relatively new thing. People look up to some of the casino streamers and a lot of people legitimately believe their sincerity and spend huge amounts of money as a result.

My objective is to pass to people that there is no legit in this industry. Not casinos, not providers and not streamers.

Casino streaming is just the new TV commercials - they are fun to watch, they are even interactive and you can actually talk to the celeb who's on the tube. But in the end - they are a part of this industry and ultimately are just commercials.

[JonnyWalker]

An image can say a lot ...
90% of streamers are fake or play in a different version of the casino with higher RTP

[olempiaps]

1 hour ago, JonnyWalker said:

An image can say a lot ...
90% of streamers are fake or play in a different version of the casino with higher RTP

Another fair point can be made here. 
 

The same streamers that point out people like him/others are fake money, scam sites, demo version are the same ones swearing on everything the sites they promote are not like that 😂 of one casino can do it, i’m pretty sure others can too. 

[beetaillight]

8 hours ago, olempiaps said:

Another fair point can be made here. 
 

The same streamers that point out people like him/others are fake money, scam sites, demo version are the same ones swearing on everything the sites they promote are not like that 😂 of one casino can do it, i’m pretty sure others can too. 

Agreed.

I believe the question should probably not be if a stream is legit or not, but whether of not the streamer is involved in the scam and to what extent.

[Slotspinner]

@beetaillightthe reason no one responds to that is because youre beyond a point where telling you anything has an effect, because youre stubbornly hooked on the idea its all a big Rig.

Good luck with that, but imo youre simply wrong.

[Original Jase]

Can't believe this thread is still going. If you think there's something shady going on why do you even gamble? I don't get why someone who gambles with these suspicions because gambling should be fun and having doubts will only wind you up more when you lose. Honestly I think people who look to blame their losses on tin foil hat theories should just wise up and take responsibility. There's no way streamers get buffed RTP, just look at NickSlots doing quad beetlejuice, or slotspinners and LetsGiveItASpins many failed bonushunts, or even every single super monopoly money shared bullet they all done. That's evidence enough for me. It's just luck , nothing else, nothing more 🙂

[beetaillight]

3 minutes ago, Homer Spinson said:

Can't believe this thread is still going. If you think there's something shady going on why do you even gamble? I don't get why someone who gambles with these suspicions because gambling should be fun and having doubts will only wind you up more when you lose. Honestly I think people who look to blame their losses on tin foil hat theories should just wise up and take responsibility. There's no way streamers get buffed RTP, just look at NickSlots doing quad beetlejuice, or slotspinners and LetsGiveItASpins many failed bonushunts, or even every single super monopoly money shared bullet they all done. That's evidence enough for me. It's just luck , nothing else, nothing more 🙂

First of all the thread keeps going as it attracts people and people want to understand what's going on.

Second of all, this thread is not about me or my losses.

Doing a failed bonus hunt doesn't mean anything. I can say - look at CasinoDaddy's big wins page - they had (36!) BIG wins on January alone (including 10000x and 5000x). Does that mean it's no luck and it is rigged? 

I can throw numbers at you as well. The issue is not the fails, the issue is the RTP and big hits and their frequency.

There is no proof here to either side - you can't prove it's not rigged and (for now) I can't prove it is. I derive from the sheer statistics which don't make sense to me as I've explained many times before.

Another thing - gambling isn't fun. Can people please stop saying that??? NO ONE GAMBLES BECAUSE IT'S FUN! People gamble because of the rush and because they wanna hit big. Period. Anyone saying otherwise is fooling you or themselves.

[Original Jase]

Another thing - gambling isn't fun. Can people please stop saying that??? NO ONE GAMBLES BECAUSE IT'S FUN! People gamble because of the rush and because they wanna hit big. Period. Anyone saying otherwise is fooling you or themselves 

What a stupid thing to say. Gambling can be fun and you shouldn't gamble at all if it's not! I feel sorry for you if you've never had fun gambling.  Have you not heard the saying "when the fun stops, stop!" Also going back to me saying about streamers having many failed streams like the SMM shared bullets they did, if your theory was right they would of surely hit big at least once, but they didn't. You want to know why? Because they was always unlucky 

 

[Stevej]

I think gambling is fun, but fun comes from that feeling of rush and addrenaline. It easily changes to something else than fun, unfortunately, so combining words gambling and fun is actually misleading and harmful.

And everybody’s chasing the big hits for sure. Casinos do anything (I mean anything) to make you think that you’ll get the big hit. 
 

About the RTP’s. Even the fact when somebody proved that some casinos use different rtp’s in demo & real money games (post on this forum) tells that casinos do tweak rtp’s. If they can do that why would you think they didn’t tweak it up to certain players? I mean come on. They don’t give a shit.

[Solutionnn]

Haven't read this whole thread but I just wanna say that the reason everyone has a unique "UserID" on certain providers is so that casinos could track and look through gamerounds of players easier. For example if a player has won really big the casino would often want to look through the gamerounds to see that the player didnt abuse a slot or found some sort of glitch/hack. Also it helps for when a player has a problem with a lost bonus/spin etc. 

 

Not really gonna go deeper into this but from my point of view you already decided to yourself that everything is rigged etc. when its not. I worked in this industry and have seen everything from behind the scenes and I have never seen anything dodgy lol.

 

Also most of the streamers that I looked through backdoors from my years in this industry was down really bad so I heavily doubt that anyone got "rigged rtp" if so it dosent seem to work at all considering 1 streamer I looked through was down insane amounts even when he played daily with dep. bonuses and cashbacks. 

 

 

 

[Stevej]

16 minutes ago, Solutionnn said:

Haven't read this whole thread but I just wanna say that the reason everyone has a unique "UserID" on certain providers is so that casinos could track and look through gamerounds of players easier. For example if a player has won really big the casino would often want to look through the gamerounds to see that the player didnt abuse a slot or found some sort of glitch/hack. Also it helps for when a player has a problem with a lost bonus/spin etc. 

 

Not really gonna go deeper into this but from my point of view you already decided to yourself that everything is rigged etc. when its not. I worked in this industry and have seen everything from behind the scenes and I have never seen anything dodgy lol.

 

Also most of the streamers that I looked through backdoors from my years in this industry was down really bad so I heavily doubt that anyone got "rigged rtp" if so it dosent seem to work at all considering 1 streamer I looked through was down insane amounts even when he played daily with dep. bonuses and cashbacks. 

 

 

 

That is quite good safe answer and I’ve heard that million times. There’s always somebody in the conversation who’ve ”worked in this industry.” But I believe you that you’ve worked in this business. Hopefully it opened your eyes.

[beetaillight]

Someone who claims to work in the gambling industry and saying he hasn't seen anything "dodgy" is laughable. Even the janitors in these companies know that everything is dodgy about this industry.

I was a team leader in a development team in the binary options industry so I was in charge of the code of similar technilogies and was in touch with the clients (casinos) and I must say I have heard everything when it comes to how to extract money from the common folk so don't come saying there's nothing dodgy in an industry which is far more dodgy than Fintech.

Besides, there is little value if someone claims they have "worked in the industry". What were you doing? did you have access to any relevant data? what did your company do?

People need to stop throwing clichés around like automatons as they provide little insight. You have anything insightful to add, then just say it. And also, give examples, name names.. I mean, stop being so generic (i know a streamer, i've seen this guy, on that casino).. What are you guys so afraid of? hurting the feelings of a streamer? will the gambling police come to arrest you if you name names?

Same goes for sentences like "Gambling can be fun and you shouldn't gamble at all if it's not!" which came out of the slot streamer handbook much like "Only gamble on money you can afford to lose" and "You cannot make money from gambling" and "don't do this at home, i'm a professional gambler"...

Edited 27 January, 2021 by beetaillight

[Solutionnn]

1 hour ago, beetaillight said:

Someone who claims to work in the gambling industry and saying he hasn't seen anything "dodgy" is laughable. Even the janitors in these companies know that everything is dodgy about this industry.

I was a team leader in a development team in the binary options industry so I was in charge of the code of similar technilogies and was in touch with the clients (casinos) and I must say I have heard everything when it comes to how to extract money from the common folk so don't come saying there's nothing dodgy in an industry which is far more dodgy than Fintech.

Besides, there is little value if someone claims they have "worked in the industry". What were you doing? did you have access to any relevant data? what did your company do?

People need to stop throwing clichés around like automatons as they provide little insight. You have anything insightful to add, then just say it. And also, give examples, name names.. I mean, stop being so generic (i know a streamer, i've seen this guy, on that casino).. What are you guys so afraid of? hurting the feelings of a streamer? will the gambling police come to arrest you if you name names?

Same goes for sentences like "Gambling can be fun and you shouldn't gamble at all if it's not!" which came out of the slot streamer handbook much like "Only gamble on money you can afford to lose" and "You cannot make money from gambling" and "don't do this at home, i'm a professional gambler"...

What I meant is that I never saw anything dodgy or any proof at all of them rigging the games nor anything dodgy with games having lowered rtp for certain players etc. I have seen people win insane amounts time to time.

 

there is a lot of dodgy stuff going on in the casino business don’t get me wrong but that’s not related to rigging games lol. The eye opener is the amount of money these big casinos make of clear problem gamblers but hey that story is for another day.
 

reason why I was being “generic” was because I don’t want to give out information that could potentially get me in trouble with the company I recently worked with as I sit on quite a lot of information. 

 

I worked in 3 different departments in different companies starting from the obvious customer support role. The reason why I’m even bringing it up is because reading your statements and comments I can tell that you have absolute zero insight of how this industry is run from the backend. This is my last and final reply as I don’t really have time for this I just wanted to give you some actual insight. 
 

 

[beetaillight]

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately no actual insight was provided in your post other than the fact you worked at customer support of a casino at some point.

It's also so easy to dismiss everything with a sentence like "I can tell that you have absolute zero insight of how this industry is run from the backend".

Ok, I get it now... thanks.. I'll leave as I don't know anything obviously.

I mean, what kind of a response is that... serves nothing to the discussion. If I don't know how this works, please enlighten me and the rest of us.. how DOES it work? what is so different in the way i'm thinking a money driven, super aggressive, super competitive industry works than it actually is?

In any case, since I obviously don't know how it works, i'll assume casinos want to get as many deposits as possible from players and wish to minimize the withdrawals so their bottom goes up and that greedy AF and wish to get as much and spend as little.

Now, I don't accept sentences like "they are making so much money - they don't need to manipulate RTP" as ultimately it's a business and a business in such a competitive landscape is selling commodity in the end and that commodity can be attractive at one time and less attractive on another, so there is no "casino is making enough" - that is just irrelevant.

Looking for more people who aren't afraid to give us some actual insights and have "enough time" for this.

[Jane Greenwood]

I work for a large, well respected, regulated operator. 

 

No one gives a shit about streamers. Not really anyway. In the grand scheme of things, there are VIPs that do more turnover in one day then a streamer will do in a year. 

 The idea that game suppliers have got together with operators to somehow give them a higher rtp or made the games work in a way that it recognises a steamers is the equivalent of saying that to boost tv subscriptions to sports channels,  TV broadcasters have got together with football clubs and told them to score more goals in televised matches to make them more appealing. 

 

 

1 hour ago, beetaillight said:

'll assume casinos want to get as many deposits as possible from players and wish to minimize the withdrawals so their bottom goes up and that greedy AF and wish to get as much and spend as little.

 

Casinos want loyalty. They don't care how many deposits or withdrawals you make, as long as you keep coming back to their casino. 

 

1 hour ago, beetaillight said:

Looking for more people who aren't afraid to give us some actual insights and have "enough time" for this.

what do you want to know... 

[beetaillight]

@Jane Greenwoodthank you for your insightful reply.

Your analogy is interesting though a bit inaccurate. Let me assure you that if TV channels companies broadcasting a game could influence a game to be more interesting and never end in 0:0, they would in a heartbeat. The relationship between football clubs and TV channels is not direct client/provider like casinos and providers and such "rigging" is impossible as too many variables are in place (players, staff, etc..)

Casino operators are clients of the slot providers and obviously have much more influence as to what product they're getting. For example: we already know that there are different "RTP" versions of slots already available.

Regarding streamers - you're working for a large operator, which is somewhat different than many smaller, less respected casinos where streaming might provide a great channel for client acquisition.

Regarding loyalty, I'm coming from this business as stated before. I know all about LTV (lifetime value) and I agree that making a player come back is much better than having multiple players come and deposit once.

What I would like to know is:

1. What options are given to an operator when they implement games on their website in regards to winning odds, RTP, etc?

2. If choosing an RTP version is available, Is it possible for an operator to purchase license for multiple versions and serving different versions to different players based on some internal logic?

3. What can you tell us about regulation in this field regarding the actual games? do you have periodic evaluations or you get a license, get an audit and that's it? Is regulation strict in terms of which version you're using, when you're making changes, etc?

 

Thank you for any information given.