Streamers advantages & RTP/Big wins (another it's RIGGED thread)

[ryans_slots]

9 hours ago, dirtystack said:

Lets take PlaynGo - lets say they were manipulating their games and not running them consistent with the versions that went through testing.

We don't know enough about anything to display or prove anything.

But Netent would. I'm sure they would love to expose PlaynGo's shenanigans and get all their games banned, reclaiming the number 1 slot provider title. 

There is no gentlemen's agreement between these companies, no "I won't tell on you if you don't tell on me" arrangement.

How much do you think Netent would be willing to pay a PlaynGo employee for this information? Millions? hundreds of thousands? Some software coder would spill the beans in a heartbeat.

Speaking of playngo, some sites I've noticed allow higher RTP on DEMO mode but soon as you switch to real play the RTP lowers how do they get around that?

[terror_82]

11 hours ago, Slotspinner said:

from what i heard from game providers, the code is being fully looked through and not allowed to be changed after stamping on the license (for the payouts)

Okey! I believe you.

But is it legal to add some game specific extras if they can provide certain randomness and rtp in their games? Because slots already have these GUI related "oh that was close" moments even though it wasn't close at all to the actual winning number combination. 

For example let me do a slot with a special rng (don't take this too seriously). So in this imaginary slot it would be more difficult to get bonus on weekends.

- rng number 10 gives you a bonus

- from monday to thursday rng draws numbers from 1 to 50

- friday to sunday rng draws numbers from 1 to 200

Is there any gambling law that really not allow me to do that if I can provide the correct RTP?

[Slotspinner]

29 minutes ago, terror_82 said:

Okey! I believe you.

But is it legal to add some game specific extras if they can provide certain randomness and rtp in their games? Because slots already have these GUI related "oh that was close" moments even though it wasn't close at all to the actual winning number combination. 

For example let me do a slot with a special rng (don't take this too seriously). So in this imaginary slot it would be more difficult to get bonus on weekends.

- rng number 10 gives you a bonus

- from monday to thursday rng draws numbers from 1 to 50

- friday to sunday rng draws numbers from 1 to 200

Is there any gambling law that really not allow me to do that if I can provide the correct RTP?

That would lower the rtp during the weekend, and make it an actually rigged slot - thats not happening

[Ash W]

The big question is...if its such a conspiracy why watch the streamers? 🤣

Everythings fake news when you don't get the same result.

To add I am NOT a casino streamer and won a few thousand x over the years on games I played. Doesn't happen often but it happens to joe public non streamers too.

Just because it doesn't happen to you within a reasonable time frame DOES NOT make it rigged!!

Edited 20 January, 2021 by arw5533

[dirtystack]

2 hours ago, ryans_slots said:

Speaking of playngo, some sites I've noticed allow higher RTP on DEMO mode but soon as you switch to real play the RTP lowers how do they get around that?

I haven't come across this before, which sites?

[onlinelooser]

I don't think you can change the RTP somehow, they just mass-grind the slots every day, so they seem to have bigger winnings. For example I, and I'm NOT a streamer or an affiliate, have had 16 wildlines on doa2, and (I think) it's something like a world record.

[ryans_slots]

9 hours ago, dirtystack said:

I haven't come across this before, which sites?

was on MrPlay I do have a thread here somewhere if you manage to dig it up, they since removed demo play ha.

[Original Jase]

If anything was shady, like slots being rigged or streamers getting buffed RTP etc, there's no way it could be kept a secret from the people behind the slot scene for over 20 years now (I know streaming slots has only been around for almost 6 years). Someone would of spilled the beans by now surely. And what about the people providers employ? Do they swear them into secrecy? Do you only get employed if you agree to be assassinated when you leave? Come on, use a bit of common sense. In my opinion it's obvious there's nothing shady going on when it comes to legit slot providers, and honest streamers. Only thing shady is them streamers who steal content, are viewbotting and have scam links. Only thing that is true is certain providers can lower RTP versions for their slots but a trustworthy casino won't hide it, or at least they shouldn't! Also regarding streamers getting buffed RTP, I used to stream myself and done better when I didn't stream. I also remember doing some streams with @Skylined87 and we literally didn't cash out once!

[beetaillight]

6 hours ago, Homer Spinson said:

If anything was shady, like slots being rigged or streamers getting buffed RTP etc, there's no way it could be kept a secret from the people behind the slot scene for over 20 years now (I know streaming slots has only been around for almost 6 years). Someone would of spilled the beans by now surely. And what about the people providers employ? Do they swear them into secrecy? Do you only get employed if you agree to be assassinated when you leave? Come on, use a bit of common sense. In my opinion it's obvious there's nothing shady going on when it comes to legit slot providers, and honest streamers. Only thing shady is them streamers who steal content, are viewbotting and have scam links. Only thing that is true is certain providers can lower RTP versions for their slots but a trustworthy casino won't hide it, or at least they shouldn't! Also regarding streamers getting buffed RTP, I used to stream myself and done better when I didn't stream. I also remember doing some streams with @Skylined87 and we literally didn't cash out once!

I think this space is more complex than someone spilling the beans.

First of all provider employees do swear to secrecy - it's in their contracts. Revealing company secrets and IP can result in a laysuit, not to mention get kicked out of their workplace. I doubt they have any incentive to "spill beans". So common sense prevails in this matter.

Besides that you already got the answer. A casino can "choose" an RTP version of a slot on some providers. This can easily lead to casino manipulation as I explained above - if there is a 94% RTP version and a 91%, who's to say there isn't a 120% or 150% RTP version. Who's to say that the slot section loads specifically based on the user type when you login to a casino, so a regular player gets one version of the slot section which all the games there fetch the 94% version and when a streamer logs in they get a different version. That will not even be detectable by anyone unless you compare the code behind the websites between 2 user types.

Also, saying that it's obvious there's nothing shady is a bit naïve when you're talking about a business which is in the billions a year. As I explained before. I was a dev team leader in a binary options trading technology provider (like NetEnt for example). I could tell you stories about "features" brokers (casinos) requested from us - chart manipulation, delays in performing buy/sell actions and even some requested a "WIN" or "LOSE" button on the website. If these kinds of clients are in the Forex space, I can just imagine the types of people in the Gambling space.

To make a long story short - the motivation is there obviously, the technical know-how exists and is rather simple even if you take into account a provider CANNOT change RTP for each player by the user id they receive and the space is full of shady people who will no doubdetly take adventage of this and also take advantage of streamers who have no idea that some casinos are using their community to steal money from the same community they're building.

[Slotspinner]

Long story short, neither slot providers nor casinos can amend RTP for certain players - they can choose to have book of dead running in 91 94 or 96% and thats it
 

[Original Jase]

@beetaillighthow do you know they're sworn to secrecy? And you trying to say if employees are told to keep it quiet that literally every single employee agreed to this? That's like saying they only employ really dishonest people which is nonsense. And what about when employees have left or even sacked? You telling me that nobody leaves or is dismissed ever? Obviously there will be. And if it was me being dismissed in an unfair way, what have I got to lose to by letting these secrets out for revenge. Who cares about a lawsuit, I'll let them take me to court where the truth will come out anyway although if what you say is true I don't think is illegal but it is definitely shady and would put most people of gambling which will cost the providers way more than a lawsuit v me. Come on buddy, wake up. If you believe in what you say, then that's your choice. I however believe the facts 🙂

Edited 21 January, 2021 by Homer Spinson

[dirtystack]

@Homer Spinsonwhen you a fired, quit, made redundant or retire from a slot provider you are promptly assassinated, they make it look like an accident.

@beetaillight They are just normal companies, with normal employees, who resent their employer as much as the employees of any other company. 

[terror_82]

I agree with @beetaillight

And they definitely do sign NDA when working in this business. I'm sure providers don't design the slots to be rigged in principle, but come on, this business is tough and competition is getting harder and harder. People are greedy. Not every online casino has millions of euros of cash.

23 hours ago, Slotspinner said:

Long story short, neither slot providers nor casinos can amend RTP for certain players - they can choose to have book of dead running in 91 94 or 96% and thats it
 

Everobody knows that, but how can you prove it? You just believe it, because it should be like that, right?

[olempiaps]

I mean everything is possible. But innocent until proven guilty or someone leaks out something. 
 

I mean look at the 08 financial crisis, If that can be corrupt and rigged and CDOs were tripled A- rated then why can a slot not be rated 96% in the same fashion and be totally misleading with 20% RTP.  This license , this regulation» bs answer don’t cut it here, the banking industry is 20x larger and they managed it so i’m pretty sure the casino industry is able too also. 

[Slotspinner]

17 minutes ago, terror_82 said:

I agree with @beetaillight

And they definitely do sign NDA when working in this business. I'm sure providers don't design the slots to be rigged in principle, but come on, this business is tough and competition is getting harder and harder. People are greedy. Not every online casino has millions of euros of cash.

Everobody knows that, but how can you prove it? You just believe it, because it should be like that, right?

again, you have to prove otherwise as it was the same with Crazy Time - Burden of proof is on the accuser and since i dont see anyone proving it, ill stick with the official statements

[terror_82]

20 minutes ago, Slotspinner said:

again, you have to prove otherwise as it was the same with Crazy Time - Burden of proof is on the accuser and since i dont see anyone proving it, ill stick with the official statements

Yes, of course. It goes both directions. It's just my opinion and I stand behind that.

I love Crazy Time. It's fantastic game, but I can tell you, after I realized it's motorized I started winning in that game. And I've played it since it was released.

[beetaillight]

You guys are obviously correct. Innocent until proven guilty. I guess when it comes down to it, it's belief unless clearly proven or disproven.

There are ways to strengthen or weaken my initial "accusation" by looking at the code behind the casino websites on various casinos for both a regular player and a streamer and see if they are the same.

I think they will either be different meaning streamers get a different slot id, meaning a different version of the slot or the other option which is worse in my opinion is that the manipulation is done behind the scenes on the handshake between the provider and the casino.

In any case, the best thing to come from this thread is that people see it and maybe get some more insights as to what may or may not happen and maybe to look differently when they're watching a stream since things might not always be for them as they view it on stream.

I will keep my belief that there definitely is something going on in terms of big wins/RTP/whatever you wanna call it that makes streamers hit more big hits more frequently. Until something leaks and we'll see the truth I guess this will remain a strong belief.

And once again, it's important that add that most good and legit streamers probably aren't aware of such manipulations if they do exist. Legit streamers are awesome, give great content and entertainment and should remain. Just use caution when you deposit your own money. It's not like it's on TV.

[olempiaps]

38 minutes ago, beetaillight said:

You guys are obviously correct. Innocent until proven guilty. I guess when it comes down to it, it's belief unless clearly proven or disproven.

There are ways to strengthen or weaken my initial "accusation" by looking at the code behind the casino websites on various casinos for both a regular player and a streamer and see if they are the same.

I think they will either be different meaning streamers get a different slot id, meaning a different version of the slot or the other option which is worse in my opinion is that the manipulation is done behind the scenes on the handshake between the provider and the casino.

In any case, the best thing to come from this thread is that people see it and maybe get some more insights as to what may or may not happen and maybe to look differently when they're watching a stream since things might not always be for them as they view it on stream.

I will keep my belief that there definitely is something going on in terms of big wins/RTP/whatever you wanna call it that makes streamers hit more big hits more frequently. Until something leaks and we'll see the truth I guess this will remain a strong belief.

And once again, it's important that add that most good and legit streamers probably aren't aware of such manipulations if they do exist. Legit streamers are awesome, give great content and entertainment and should remain. Just use caution when you deposit your own money. It's not like it's on TV.

How can we debunk this you may ask? 
Simple, you have the knowledge why don’t a couple of streamers allow you to look at the codes while they are playing to see if there is a different RTP version. 
 

Highly doubt it anyone will accept to, kinda like the saying « Yeah i have a gf, but she goes to another school» . They protect everything based on «facts», but fail to realise that a casino is a business at the end of the day. Why bother with a 5% Edge that makes you millions a year when you can push that Edge Even further by bribing here and there and make billions. Just like any other industry this is norm. 

[terror_82]

12 minutes ago, olempiaps said:

How can we debunk this you may ask? 
Simple, you have the knowledge why don’t a couple of streamers allow you to look at the codes while they are playing to see if there is a different RTP version. 

... I don't think it works like that 😆

[beetaillight]

Yeah, I was about to throw that into the air that maybe a streamer can do some kind of investigation on their own, but obviously there would be little motivation for any streamer to do that. Not when it's just in the sake of "seeking the truth".

*Looks for a streamer to pick up the glove*

The way things are now, it's a win win situation for streamers and casinos as one (lose lose if you're a regular gambler but nothing's perfect I guess). Casinos get tons of deposits, streamers get their share + perks to keep their streams running and buying a new Rolex once a year and the money's rolling.

 

 

[Janalleman]

There is no way streamers get better wins based on different rtp settings. It's all very easy to explain why streamers get regular high x wins.

Most streamers promote a casino and they both want to gain from that:

Casino: promotion, new sign ups and more profit.
Streamer: affiliate income, deposit bonus and profit!

A quote that would fit the majority of casino streams these days: ''When u have nothing to lose, it's no gambling''

Streamers play either with a deposit bonus, got affiliate income or get cashbacks up to 100%**.

**Yes, this is the new trend (probably an old one aswell). Streamers with absolutely zero risk, gambling infinite funds on 'trusted' casino's.
An example would be 'Xposed'. Infinite 2.500€ reloads with zero risk taking. Like hitting 100k or even 250k is hard that way..
Anyway, he is actually 'clear' about it, though it would be naive to think he keeps 25% of winnings, based on casino gains.

So there def. is casino streamers out there with cashback deals, who are not clear about it. So no risk involved in losing money.

All these 'streamer advantages' lead to bigger wins, based on actual playtime; u can chase a big win, if u don't care about the losses chasing it.
Many have proven this over and over again on doa2 or even jammin' jars. Obv luck is still involved aswell. 
I personally lowstake chase aswell, which has given me several 1000-10.000x wins. This can be very costly, even at 20 cent.

The reason streamers get more big wins is all based on the actual money invested.  And overall those big wins don't put them directly in profit.
This is a mixture of a casino edge (due to affiliate gains) and affiliate income, based on a set target.

This also explains why a lot of streamers play those ridiculous stakes. If there is no risk involved in them, so why not.
When the affiliate is doing a good job, the stakes will grow with it. This is why all 'popular' streamers end up with 5-100€ spins.

Anyway, I could write a book about this tbh and I am not an expert at all.

Conclusion is: there is so much easier ways to gain big wins as manipulating slots rtp.
And streamers DO have a higher RTP, based on affiliate gains.

[beetaillight]

4 hours ago, Janalleman said:

There is no way streamers get better wins based on different rtp settings. It's all very easy to explain why streamers get regular high x wins.

Most streamers promote a casino and they both want to gain from that:

Casino: promotion, new sign ups and more profit.
Streamer: affiliate income, deposit bonus and profit!

A quote that would fit the majority of casino streams these days: ''When u have nothing to lose, it's no gambling''

Streamers play either with a deposit bonus, got affiliate income or get cashbacks up to 100%**.

**Yes, this is the new trend (probably an old one aswell). Streamers with absolutely zero risk, gambling infinite funds on 'trusted' casino's.
An example would be 'Xposed'. Infinite 2.500€ reloads with zero risk taking. Like hitting 100k or even 250k is hard that way..
Anyway, he is actually 'clear' about it, though it would be naive to think he keeps 25% of winnings, based on casino gains.

So there def. is casino streamers out there with cashback deals, who are not clear about it. So no risk involved in losing money.

All these 'streamer advantages' lead to bigger wins, based on actual playtime; u can chase a big win, if u don't care about the losses chasing it.
Many have proven this over and over again on doa2 or even jammin' jars. Obv luck is still involved aswell. 
I personally lowstake chase aswell, which has given me several 1000-10.000x wins. This can be very costly, even at 20 cent.

The reason streamers get more big wins is all based on the actual money invested.  And overall those big wins don't put them directly in profit.
This is a mixture of a casino edge (due to affiliate gains) and affiliate income, based on a set target.

This also explains why a lot of streamers play those ridiculous stakes. If there is no risk involved in them, so why not.
When the affiliate is doing a good job, the stakes will grow with it. This is why all 'popular' streamers end up with 5-100€ spins.

Anyway, I could write a book about this tbh and I am not an expert at all.

Conclusion is: there is so much easier ways to gain big wins as manipulating slots rtp.
And streamers DO have a higher RTP, based on affiliate gains.

As stated in previous posts, as much as I cannot say 100% there is a higher RTP for streamers, you cannot say they do not, unless you can prove it somehow - which you can't.

Regarding what you said: "

Most streamers promote a casino and they both want to gain from that:

Casino: promotion, new sign ups and more profit.
Streamer: affiliate income, deposit bonus and profit!"

Let me ask you a simple question:

What would make you more likely to deposit a money in casino X instead of Y when you're watching a streamer promoting them both and the bonuses you get are the same. Or even what would drive you to deposit at all for that matter? The answer is simple: you want to get the hits the streamer is getting and basically you want to win big for as low as possible, like most of us.

Would it be more likely you'll deposit after seeing a streamer winning 10,000x (like Daske on San Quntin yesterday) or after they fail again and again?

I think the answer here is obvious, so casino promotion is not only on the bonuses you get, it's also on the likelyhood you'll deposit once you're seeing someone play the casino and streamers do a service when they play casinos and casinos have as much incentive to have the streamers win big as often as possible. They give money to the streamers, give bonuses and pay their profits, so why shouldn't they use the streamer's influence and screen time to make the casino as attractive as possible by winning big and winning often.

Oh, Daske just won 1000x on Honey rush.. been playing that lot for a year as it's my fav. Max I got was 550x. Interesting...

Open your eyes people...

[dirtystack]

Bet you continue gambling despite the “obvious” rigging.

 

 

 

 

 

[beetaillight]

2 minutes ago, dirtystack said:

Bet you continue gambling despite the “obvious” rigging.

 

 

 

 

 

Less than before, but yeah.

I must say that 99% of the posts were all in favor of the fact that there is no rigging whatsoever and streamers get only advantage in terms of bonuses, etc...

I find this very interesting.. where do you guys get the confidence that there's no way this could happen? Do you have some hidden data which you're holding off? please, share with everyone the reason for your confidence.

I guess it must seem weird that a business which is driven by money in such a shady industry will be out to get your money in whatever means necessary, including lying, manipulating and cheating. I guess no one experienced these kinds of things from casinos ever. You're obviously some lucky bastards

Withholding funds, fine.. scamming on bonuses, fine.. but manipulating RTP so it would look like this casino is the best casino around and you're bound to hit a 10000x on your 2nd spin.. that's definitely crossing a red line... is it?

[dirtystack]

5 hours ago, beetaillight said:

Withholding funds, fine.. scamming on bonuses, fine.. but manipulating RTP so it would look like this casino is the best casino around and you're bound to hit a 10000x on your 2nd spin.. that's definitely crossing a red line... is it?

Yeah it would be crossing the line.

It would also be crossing a line if they used that camera on your laptop to spy on and record you while you masturbate and then, once you hit big and tried to cashout, they threatened to release the video unless you reverse your withdrawal and loose all your balance.

You can't prove that the above doesn't happen. I can't prove that it does, and you can't prove that it doesn't. Until you can prove that it doesn't happen then we need to assume that it does happen. I mean think about it, it's obviously happening this way as they are shady businesses out to get you money by any means possible. Please share your reasons why you are confident that this isn't happening as I prefer to masturbate without fear like you lucky bastards.

What do you think guys, is this fair?

Ah

What I am trying to say is that you've made a line which it would be out of order if they crossed, but it is a line of your creation and you talk about it as though it is factual. You don't have any idea and if you really think this is happening then going to the UKGC - they love investigating, auditing and dishing out big fines for non compliance.

Why not get a a job with on of the slot providers and expose them if you have the background in networking - they are not some secretive industry, they are just like any other business; full of employees who really do not give a fuck about the investment company that owns them. If this was happening, outside of some rogue operations, then it would be known rather then guessed at.

 

Edited 23 January, 2021 by dirtystack
Hope I haven't given any casinos an idea.