VeraJohn is a bunch of low life scammers

[moonlandingwasstaged]

I will try to make this story as short as possible which is hard.

Total deposits: 457.11 EUR

Casino: VeraJohn

I found verajohn online. I registered. I instantly contacted support and asked if Lithuania/ Lithuanians are eligible to play on their site. Their supports (all of them) said YES we have license YES YOU CAN PLAY,  YES YOU CAN DEPOSIT/WITHDRAW. I though okay cool. Eventually I got 110 euro win from about 20 EUR deposit. I thought I will try to withdraw to check how this site works. That's where the shady stuff started happening. I tried to withdraw via Trustly, because they informed me you cannot withdraw back to MASTERCARD. However I got message "your country is not serviced". VeraJohn said ''it's technical problems" so we made ''a deal'''on manual transfer by them which had to take place as soon as we agreed on it. So my requested amount stayed in a cash balance and it wasn't locked - meaning it is not even going through any "manual withdrawal" they were just stalling me. Eventually after extremely toxic supports who tried to implicate me at every sentence I wrote and gave me no information I got frustrated and lost my 110 EUR. Don't focus on the word LOST story doesn't even start here. Almost instantly after I lost and contacted them they said "well payment departament was about to settle this withdraw but your cash balance went to zero duh" I told them I want to get my 110 EUR compensated, because all of this so far was their fault. Story doesn't even start here. After me pushing them to answer why I couldn't withdraw on my own and why Trustly declined my country they told this "TRUSTLY doesn't accept your country" however trustly is giving their services to Lithuania since 2015, REAL STORY IS (this is where weird shit starts) they do not have proper license and documentation to provide gambling in Lithuania. Proof you think? I contacted regulations in my country which told me verajohn is NOT licensed to provide online gambling services in our country. Now you think "well it's your fault for not doing proper research" WELL GUESS WHAT. Their support reassured me NON STOP they're licensed, THEY'RE LEGIT, I WAS FULLY VERIFIED USER WITH MY ID CARD, BANK CARD AND PHONE BILL TO CONFIRM MY ADDRESS, if I KNEW they provide illegal gambling I WOULDN'T have deposited in the first place. I have all screenshots, all emails, some of filmed live chats with support to back up these claims. After all of this they permanently banned me on their site. I contacted them again and asked about license - story changed, first support I've contacted said: Lithuania is blocked and lithuanians are not allowed to play on our site. WHY I WAS TOLD DIFFERENTLY BEFORE? Obviously I want all of my deposits compensated, because I would never have played there If I knew they're providing illegal gambling and obviously I want all of my deposits back which I will probably NEVER SEE again.

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Update: 

Hi Edgaras,   Thank you for choosing Vera&John.   This message is to inform you that a refund as a gesture of goodwill in the amount of €110 has been processed and you should receive the funds within 5 business days.

However I'm not satisfied with this and I will keep pushing for compensation of all my deposits. It's their mistake and they should settle this properly. Total deposits were 457.11EUR

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Update: Just got 110 EUR from them and I'm still pushing for total sum of 457.11 EUR, because I'm in the right here and casinos need to stop walking all over gambling communities.

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Update: Requested the rest amount of 347. 11 EUR of total deposits. Apparently "relevant departament is looking into it"  Still not going to give up until they settle this fair. 

[LordRimley]

Hope u get it back,  shady business.......

[Plani Bardh]

Wowww, I will follow this story it sounds very interested, to be honest I have not had problem with them here in the UK.  Good Luck of getting the rest, keep us updated  

[plejern]

@DavidLabowsky Something you can help push for. Vera&John has in my eyes always been a respectable site but if this is true its just atrocious. Ofc he should be able to get his money back. Something you can look into? I apologize if Im out of line asking you!

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Update: They finally admitted it's not a regular case that's their reason for taking so long to resolve it I guess. I was promised an answer this week however support said I will have to wait for them to contact me which means probably another 5 business days.

Further explanation about why I was frustrated when I found they can't legally provide gambling in Lithuania:

1. If I had a big win they could've refused to pay it out hence legal issues with Lithuania.

2. If I had a big win there would be huge chances I would get audited because sudden influx of cash in my bank account resulting either of paying huge taxes of off it or funds being frozen by government.

3. If I actually kept playing without knowing about their false claims of proper license and documentation and during that time my government blacklisted them, not only all of my winnings (if I had any) would be confiscated, but I even might get charged for fraud,illegal gambling, tax evasion and much more while being innocent.

So these three reasons in a long run (if I had one) puts me at DEAD MONEY. Note that a lot of ''if'' were being used to deliver my point accordingly as well as to draw a better picture and show you the possible depth of the situation.

It's beyond my comprehension how this situation is lasting so long since they seem to understand their mistake, I have all the proof needed to back up my story.

Waiting for next week I guess. As well as 347.11 EUR.

[Guest]

Not really surprised by this.

For UK players, Intercasino, who are the sister company of Vera+John, same licence,  are inept as well. They tell people to complain on Resolver yet they do not have a resolver account. A complaint needs then to be submitted under Vera+John who do not respond. Its been brought to the attention of the UKGC who are "concerned" by the possible breach of licence terms(I won't go into the detail behind the case publicly). If Vera and John reps would like to speak to me about this then feel free to do so by PM.  This is a responsible gaming issue between 2017 and 2018, lack of response is appalling. 

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Well DavidLabowsky, their affiliate helped to get 110.00 EUR back, but I have no clue after reading entire story how can he say things like these. He sounds like verajohn support employees ignoring all the facts and proof. No clue why David is covering for them like this, so far he was the only one out of huge pool of people taking casino side. Not directly, but still he's taking it. Not having a license and proper documents to provide gambling is against the law. What else is here to discuss? Are casinos above the law now? Please explain how can you say "see it from the both sides". How can I see this situation from a side breaking the law? This whole case is getting more infuriating with every day. 

Once again I repeat - YES I AM ASKING FOR COMPENSATION OF EXACTLY ALL DEPOSITS NOT A CENT MORE OR LESS. I wouldn't have gambled in the first place if not them inducing me to deposit with their lies. 

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Can't edit my post anymore so just to add unfollowed on twitch and unsubsriced on youtube, quite disappointed. Also for people wondering about the "heavy" language I used with their support, I will contact verajohn to send me a transcript of entire conversation and post it here, as well as upload bits of screenshots of it so you could look at decide how "heavy" my language was. Pretty much a language of every person in the world disappointed by bad customer support, imagine that. I will post it eventually. Done for tonight.

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Update: 

They dropped me this today:

2.2
It is your responsibility to determine the legal status of internet gambling in your jurisdiction and act accordingly. The availability of the Website in any particular jurisdiction does not constitute an offer or invitation by Dumarca to use the services offered by the Website. You must not mask, disguise, anonymise or hide your IP (i.e. by using a VPN) while accessing the Website. Dumarca accepts no liability whatsoever with respect to actions by players where internet gambling is illegal and/or which is in violation of this clause of the Terms and Conditions. Users who are resident in Malaysia, China, Hong Kong or the U.S are not allowed to open an account. We do not permit accounts to be opened by, or used from, Users based in certain jurisdictions (including the U.S). The list of jurisdictions is determined by the legality of online gambling in the relevant countries and may be changed by us from time to time. In addition, certain of our games may only be accessed and played in certain jurisdictions. 

So I tried to determine the legal status by asking supports of verajohn prior to even registering, all of them said yes players from Lithuania are eligible to play as well as some of their affiliated review sites had Lithuanian flag with word "accepted" next to it I checked regulations blacklist prior to registering and verajohn wasn't on it. My IP wasn't masked or disguised. Pretty much this section of T&C  is their scapegoat plan for this situation in which they're completely at fault by providing false information to their customers. Also what about false advertising? Why would they advertise they're accepting players from Lithuania? This entire story from their side makes no sense it seems they stalled this as long as possible to get their story straight and it's still completely "clownish"!

Now their story changed from being licensed to provide online gambling services in Lithuania to "It's your fault we are not licensed". I stay behind my words and yes verajohn is a bunch of low life scammers.

To sum up: 6 supports said they're licensed/documented, 2 supports said no they're not. Figure that out, huh.

Going to shape entire story in a beautiful essay and post everywhere I can as well as to send to proper instances to still go deeper into the issue.

This is literally the best example of how casinos think they're above the law.  Anyone in their sane mind could tell atleast 3 laws these scammers broke. 

Advertising in the UK is managed under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008^[46] (CPR), effectively the successor to the Trade Descriptions Act 1968. It is designed to implement the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive, part of a common set of European minimum standards for consumer protection and legally bind advertisers in England, Scotland, Wales and parts of Ireland.^[34][46] These regulations focus on business to consumer interactions. These are modelled by a table used for assessing unfairness, evaluations being made against four tests expressed in the regulations that indicate deceptive advertising:

• Contrary to the requirements of professional diligence
• False or deceptive practice in relation to a specific list of key factors
• Omission of material information (unclear or untimely information)
• Aggressive practice by harassment, coercion or undue influence 

Taken from UK laws and would you look at that verajohn fits right in. Before anyone says UK laws doesn't apply to verajohn their support literally adviced me to contact only UK instances.

[earthymontana_67]

Leider hat man immer öfter diese Probleme deswegen wollen sie bei uns in Deutschland komplett online Casinos verbieten!

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Update: 

Thank you for contacting Vera&John.

 

You are more than welcome to contact any regulatory body or legal counsel you feel is necessary in regards to this matter as it is your prerogative to do so.

 

Our decision however will stand and as previously mentioned by my colleague Alice no further refunds will be given in regards to this matter.

 

Completely went silent mode even though they're in the wrong. They probably think I will not sue for such a small amount, but actually I will. This will take time and preparation I will update this at best after a month. 

 

Would not recommend anyone to use this casino.

 

Also I don't know what are the rules about thread closing here, but I'd like this to stay open so I could keep posting additional information about this rotten business.

 

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Update: Some extra info.

I contacted them to get my case reference number - I got ignored (it's needed to make things a little faster when cases are being investigated or atleast I was being told so by other authorities/instances)

Had to contact them to clarify under what license I was gambling they said MGA, I contact MGA - they tell me to contact their ADR - eCOGRA, another 3 weeks down the drain. 

During this whole situation they finally changed their site to exclude Lithuanian region, why was it available during registration in the first place? Have in mind that now all other Lithuanian players will most likely lose any money they had on VeraJohn site. Fun thing is that they still don't have Lithuania as not accepted country in their Terms and Conditions as well as it's not updated since 02.07.2018 they only have certain providers restricted to Lithuania of which I haven't played a single one, because I just couldn't see any of them in game choices. Good for me, still haven't broke a single rule.

Two of their affiliate sites which were providing false information that Lithuanians were eligible to play changed information on their site to "not allowed". 

This is by far the worst run-around I had in 8 years of gambling!

Also what was that verification process I went through? I mean my ID card said Lithuania, my bank account said Lithuania, my phone bill said Lithuania. So how did they process me if you were providing illegal gambling services to me?

I'd advice to avoid anything affiliated with them as well, because business which conducts itself like this can only be affiliated likewise.

[OnlyASpin]

Scammers.

[mafiukas]

With your help now all casinos listed in casinogrounds restricted Lithuanian players accounts. Also with help of  Gaming Control Authority of the Republic of Lithuania.So good luck playing now in our local oligarch casinos with 70% legal RTP. If you are an idiot please dont play anymore anywhere.

 

 

[mafiukas]

And dont make problems here, because you really know that you played on "illegal" casino, because all our locals are in  Lithuania language. It was your risk and trust question between player and casino. But the biggest problem is that "Legal" casinos in Lithuania are totaly scam, games are reprogrammed and nobody care it. So lot of players play in other Europe casinos that work normally with risk of their money. But its better to play with risk than be totaly scammed by locals

[Guest]

On 04/02/2019 at 11:13, moonlandingwasstaged said:

Update: 

They dropped me this today:

2.2
It is your responsibility to determine the legal status of internet gambling in your jurisdiction and act accordingly. The availability of the Website in any particular jurisdiction does not constitute an offer or invitation by Dumarca to use the services offered by the Website. You must not mask, disguise, anonymise or hide your IP (i.e. by using a VPN) while accessing the Website. Dumarca accepts no liability whatsoever with respect to actions by players where internet gambling is illegal and/or which is in violation of this clause of the Terms and Conditions. Users who are resident in Malaysia, China, Hong Kong or the U.S are not allowed to open an account. We do not permit accounts to be opened by, or used from, Users based in certain jurisdictions (including the U.S). The list of jurisdictions is determined by the legality of online gambling in the relevant countries and may be changed by us from time to time. In addition, certain of our games may only be accessed and played in certain jurisdictions. 

So I tried to determine the legal status by asking supports of verajohn prior to even registering, all of them said yes players from Lithuania are eligible to play as well as some of their affiliated review sites had Lithuanian flag with word "accepted" next to it I checked regulations blacklist prior to registering and verajohn wasn't on it. My IP wasn't masked or disguised. Pretty much this section of T&C  is their scapegoat plan for this situation in which they're completely at fault by providing false information to their customers. Also what about false advertising? Why would they advertise they're accepting players from Lithuania? This entire story from their side makes no sense it seems they stalled this as long as possible to get their story straight and it's still completely "clownish"!

Now their story changed from being licensed to provide online gambling services in Lithuania to "It's your fault we are not licensed". I stay behind my words and yes verajohn is a bunch of low life scammers.

To sum up: 6 supports said they're licensed/documented, 2 supports said no they're not. Figure that out, huh.

Going to shape entire story in a beautiful essay and post everywhere I can as well as to send to proper instances to still go deeper into the issue.

This is literally the best example of how casinos think they're above the law.  Anyone in their sane mind could tell atleast 3 laws these scammers broke. 

Advertising in the UK is managed under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008^[46] (CPR), effectively the successor to the Trade Descriptions Act 1968. It is designed to implement the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive, part of a common set of European minimum standards for consumer protection and legally bind advertisers in England, Scotland, Wales and parts of Ireland.^[34][46] These regulations focus on business to consumer interactions. These are modelled by a table used for assessing unfairness, evaluations being made against four tests expressed in the regulations that indicate deceptive advertising:

• Contrary to the requirements of professional diligence
• False or deceptive practice in relation to a specific list of key factors
• Omission of material information (unclear or untimely information)
• Aggressive practice by harassment, coercion or undue influence 

Taken from UK laws and would you look at that verajohn fits right in. Before anyone says UK laws doesn't apply to verajohn their support literally adviced me to contact only UK instances.

Just because a casino has a T&C doesn't mean they can legally apply that in a certain jurisdiction. SE is one in the UK where a casino hides behind their terms but some of the terms are against trading laws. I would push eCogra or raise a PAB on Casinomeister, Max on there is really good.

[nside25]

Lol, if you will get those deposits back, im going to do the same thing ?

There are many countries who have these restrictions and yet people are still able to play in some casinos.  

I think you just had bad run and want your lost money back. That is why you are making such a fuss

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, nside25 said:

Lol, if you will get those deposits back, im going to do the same thing ?

There are many countries who have these restrictions and yet people are still able to play in some casinos.  

I think you just had bad run and want your lost money back. That is why you are making such a fuss

 

The point probably is he would never have been paid a withdrawal. Things like this happen regularly and the casino screws the player over. The consumer should and does have a lot more power these days, they just don't have the knowledge to use it.

[moonlandingwasstaged]

On 13/02/2019 at 22:04, nside25 said:

Lol, if you will get those deposits back, im going to do the same thing ?

There are many countries who have these restrictions and yet people are still able to play in some casinos.  

I think you just had bad run and want your lost money back. That is why you are making such a fuss

 

You clearly haven't read anything on this topic, next time try to withhold your nonsense comments, thank you very much. That's first and last time I'm going to reply to you to keep the topic clear as possible.

Update on topic: eCogra notified me that they're contacting VeraJohn today, I might get an answer sooner than I thought. Still if it doesn't satisfy me I will contact PAB and if that doesn't help me I will simply sue them as a last resort.

[moonlandingwasstaged]

Having reviewed the details of the dispute, we have founds as follows:

 

·        Account x@gmail.com was registered on 19.11.2018 at 01:39:28;

·        On 21^st November 2018 you were informed that there were no jurisdictional restrictions in place:

Chat 21/11/2018 16:45 Hey, welcome to Vera&John! You're speaking with Christian E, how may I help you? Edgaras Stravinskas: Hello I would like to ask if players from Lithuania are permitted to play on your site? Christian E: Hello there Edgaras Christian E: One moment and I will have a look Christian E: Thank you for holding Edgaras, players from Lithuania are able to play on our site

 

·        On 17^th January 2019 you contacted Customer Support requesting information regarding withdrawal and were advised that a bank transfer will take up to 2-3 business days as MasterCard does not function for withdrawals:

Chat 17/01/2019 14:46 Edgaras Stravinskas: Hi I just want to ask about my MasterCard. Deposits are working fine everything is okay, but it seems there is no way to cash out for MasterCard users Edgaras Stravinskas: Or am I missing something Edgaras Stravinskas: I want to keep playing here but the thought of no proper way of withdrawing in case I win scares me lol Bjorn A: Hi Edgaras, Unfortunately as mentioned in our T&C 4.13 Withdrawals to credit / debit card are possible to Visa or Visa electron. Unfortunately MasterCard does not currently facilitate this functionality. Bjorn A: You can find more information regarding your withdrawals from this link https://www.verajohn.co.uk/about/terms-and-conditions   Edgaras Stravinskas: Is that direct bank withdraw thing going to work 100 percent? Im using SEB bank. And is there any fees to withdraw Edgaras Stravinskas: I mean do I need to pay fees when I withdraw Bjorn A: Yes the direct bank withdrawal should always work and you will receive the funds in 2/3 business days and 4.16 Dumarca reserves the right to impose a reasonable fee reflecting its direct costs on withdrawals under £50. Further external banking processing fees may apply from time to time which may be outside of our control. See 4.20 of these Terms and Conditions.

 

·        On 18^th January 2019 you contacted the Customer Service representative and requested a withdrawal of EUR 110:

Edgaras Stravinskas: and i want to withdraw 110 euros

 

·        Your account balance at the time reflected 110.85 EUR:

Transaction ID	Date	Account ID	Trans	Note	Ccy	Delta	Balance
11892119141	18/01/2019 10:53	23036698	WINNING	Reactor	EUR	97.6	110.85

 

·        On 19^th January 2019 you provided Customer Services your bank account details and confirmed that a manual payment would suffice;

·        You however proceeded to wager the balance in your account down to 0 as reflected below:

Transaction ID	Date	Account ID	Trans	Note	Ccy	Delta	Balance
11910454494	19/01/2019 23:42	23920330	WAGER	Scratch Magic Mobile	EUR	-1	0
11910452543	19/01/2019 23:42	23920330	WAGER	Scratch Magic Mobile	EUR	-2	1
11909800020	19/01/2019 22:16	23920330	BONUS_RELEASE	Shop Spin Credits	EUR	3	3
11909795621	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-0.6	0
11909795032	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WINNING	Ivanhoe	EUR	0.48	0.6
11909794681	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-0.2	0.12
11909794434	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-0.2	0.32
11909793832	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	0.52
11909793564	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	1.52
11909793334	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	2.52
11909793094	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	3.52
11909792850	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	4.52
11909792613	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	5.52
11909792395	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	6.52
11909792136	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	7.52
11909791890	19/01/2019 22:15	23036698	WAGER	Ivanhoe	EUR	-1	8.52

 

·        You were provided the 110 EUR withdrawal originally requested, but the balance was wagered away during processing.

·        Your account was blocked on 21.01.2019.

 

Given the above, we are satisfied that, as a result of you having depleted the account balance during processing of the withdrawal, a refund of deposits is not due.

 

Should you have evidence to the contrary, please provide it to us within the next seven days and we will investigate further. In the absence of having received such evidence, the dispute will be closed in favour of the operator.

 

Kind regards,

Estelle

After all this waiting they answered to the wrong problem and request. That's how eCOGRA works. Jesus christ it's like their job is to back up casinos. They literally got info on verajoh support lying about jurisdiction and they don't even care lol what kind of service is this are you kidding me? I'm speechless

[moonlandingwasstaged]

I want to add that all of these messages were taken out of context, parts about casino supports lying about eligibility and ''technical issues with pay out'' were left out for some reason. So there is your so called ''legitimate casinos and their regulators" on the plate.

Also to glue this disgrace of an email their took over one month time.

About mastercard issue - this was as a last resort, no idea why there was no proof provided about them lying that over withdrawal methods doesn't work or as they said ''not available for your country" which by the way were lies as well by their support team.

This was the most illogical thing I've read in a while as well:

Given the above, we are satisfied that, as a result of you having depleted the account balance during processing of the withdrawal, a refund of deposits is not due.

I like how first thing in this e-mail eCOGRA is confirming VeraJohn lying about my eligibility to play and yet it's not even focus of the issue.