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ban online casino streamers

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55 minutes ago, ruho79 said:

Not that I disagree with most of the things your post mentioned, but this isn't a perfect analogy because of the reasons you stated, it's because it's incorrect.

How is a casino streamer pestering you? He/she isn't, he/she is providing a service that you have to actively seek up. It's like scolding a drug dealer for pestering you and forcing an addiction on you, when you spend a lot of time and effort locating one for service, if you wish to discuss it from an addiction point of view.  

If you want to change predatory advertising, take it up with the casino groups that condone affiliates that spam anonymously and without consent, or the TV company (MTV) that allows pretty much 100% of advertising to be casino advertising, or your respective government which allows gambling in every corner of your respective country.

I think you misunderstood me, I never claimed that the streamer was. My point was that the argument "Gambling addicts are weak and only have themselves to blame" is hard to maintain when you look at the gambling industries intrusive advertisements. Pretty much on point with your last sentence, of course governments will have to step in and regulate because the industry itself are not willing and might not be able to with new casinos popping up every day.

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9 minutes ago, someguy123 said:

I think you misunderstood me, I never claimed that the streamer was. My point was that the argument "Gambling addicts are weak and only have themselves to blame" is hard to maintain when you look at the gambling industries intrusive advertisements. Pretty much on point with your last sentence, of course governments will have to step in and regulate because the industry itself are not willing and might not be able to with new casinos popping up every day.

Online casinos do pop up every day. But how many of those are not licensed by the UKGC? What can Government do about those? Very difficult when said casinos are not operated within the UK let alone have a UK license.

At least genuine streamers direct customers to legit regulated casinos rather than some clip joint set to put obstacles in the way when it comes to withdrawal time.

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13 minutes ago, Slotplayer said:

Online casinos do pop up every day. But how many of those are not licensed by the UKGC? What can Government do about those? Very difficult when said casinos are not operated within the UK let alone have a UK license.

At least genuine streamers direct customers to legit regulated casinos rather than some clip joint set to put obstacles in the way when it comes to withdrawal time.

Well that part didn't have anything to do what happens inside the casinos but about casino advertisement, I don't know if its the same in every country. I live in Sweden and here gambling ads are everywhere, I do not own a TV but whenever I watch at a friends house or family it seems that close to 50% of all ads are gambling related. 

I do know that the UKGC are somewhat successful in making the industry "self"-regulate(Hard to call it self-regulation when most of the obvious solutions are met with unwillingness and delays)  and that some of it also comes to benefit gamblers in other countries. Casinos do however seem more than happy to contain those "regulations" to the UK if they are not met with any pressure in other countries.

When I use the word government I am talking about all of our governments, they will work independently from one and another but many of them are facing the same problems. I think an extensive collaboration with the UKGC would be beneficiary to any other country because of the work they have put into this and the experience they hold.

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17 minutes ago, someguy123 said:

Well that part didn't have anything to do what happens inside the casinos but about casino advertisement, I don't know if its the same in every country. I live in Sweden and here gambling ads are everywhere, I do not own a TV but whenever I watch at a friends house or family it seems that close to 50% of all ads are gambling related. 

I agree that ads are absolutely insane here in Sweden and Denmark as well. That is something that needs to be looked into. Unfortunately they are financing all of the major sporting events across the globe. Without sponsors everything would be more expensive. But like you said, those adds are out of hand. I think almost everyone will agree on that.

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6 hours ago, Slotplayer said:

Some interesting points.

For me a lot stems from frustration. We have been here before and as I said in my previous post, listened and made adjustments. The concensus last time was that streaming videos are OK but streamers were not clear that they earned money from it and didn't promote responsible gambling. Adjustments were made regarding this.

You said that streamers would not get donations and subscriptions without affiliate programmes and casino bonuses. During one of the previous live streams by PaulD all those against streamers were more than happy for a streamer to just get donations instead of affiliate income. In other words, the streamer is still generating income off the back of gambling material, albeit via a different means.

I have a feeling here that those against streamers are against streamers making money off the back of it under the pretence to look out for problem gamblers. They are not concerned about streamers that don't have affiliate links (a reference was made to RockNRolla who was applauded for it). But it doesn't stop the gambling addict watching Paul and putting that £100 in he really didn't want after seeing him hit big live on his non affiliate stream.

There is already a lot of regulation regarding affiliation. Streamers (as well as web site affiliates) need to comply to ASA standards. Affiliates have to comply with the casino's affiliate terms and conditions. With a casino being directly responsible for the action of their affiliates and with the UKGC and ASA recently taking action, the casinos will quickly close an affiliate account if it breaches any regulations.

The "anti streamers community" need to be very clear what they exactly want but amongst that community there is a lot of division and disagreement. As a streamer you make adjustments, get good feedback regarding this for the goal posts to then suddenly move. And then people are wondering why our subsequent reactions are a little defensive.

About subscriptions and donations, what I said was that when it comes to casino streams they are not making money the conventional way as other streamers thru subscriptions and donations but are instead dependent on affiliate programs and casino bonuses to maintain all those costly streaming sessions. 

What you then have to ask yourself are the streamers allegiance to their viewers or those casinos. When it comes to these situations where you find yourself in the middle of two interests and you are dependent on both the truth is that your allegiance often are divided and somewhere in the middle. As in the case with High Roller, it wouldn't get such a positive review and played frequently by many of the streamers with overly positive opinions unless it became a partner with a favorable deal with Casinoground. But I am also sure that Casinoground and their streamers wouldn't promote it as they did if they had any suspicion that High Roller wasn't a top tier online casino. It goes hand in hand. 

@Slotplayer I do agree with you that some in this thread are not sincere  and I find it amusing how people goes on crusades against people instead of big business interests. Happens all the time, people don't take any action against big business but when a small actor like an online casino streamer happens to make money then by god we shall burn that part of the business down. 

Of all the problems in this industry casino streamers should not be first on anyone's list, if it should be on that list at all. There are so many other problems this industry needs to tackle first, but they have shown again and again that they are not capable of doing so, our governments will eventually have to step in.

Edited by someguy123
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I find it laughable the current crusade against FOBTs which are seen as the UKs worst enemy because of bet size allowed and the frequency someone can spin on roulette etc. Actually to a compulsive gambler the online world of gambling is far more damaging. At least these machines which generate a random number similar to online roulette have caps on the amount that can be bet on a single spin. No such limitations are in place online. 

Streamers use these as a scapegoat to divert attention away from the dark side of online gambling. You can bet thousands every spin online but only a hundred in the bookmakers. 

The criticism for TV advertisements is also laughable considering the streamers are advertising unregulated content for hours on end and in many cases it's not fully explained that they are advertisements. The whole community stinks and just divert blame elsewhere. TV adverts have to be shown beyond the watershed and last a few seconds. Streamers advertise casinos with crazy bet stakes to a vulnerable portion of the gambling community for hours. There's no regulation at all and the little that is supposed to be adhered to isn't. 

Pressure should be put on the gambling commission and Gamcare etc to change this and not the streamer who has no interest in cutting their income to help addicts. 

Truth is that the reason why new casinos exist and are promoted is because the addicts have self excluded from the big players. New casinos like high roller really offer nothing different, it's just a fresh site where addicts can deposit and lose again. 

Streamers and their fans will argue that they offer another chance to get a bonus. These bonuses are extremely unfavourable and I would interested to see how many people actually cash out after taking one. Little to none I assume. This is verified by the fact you have to actually opt out of some of these bonuses and I have personally had to plead with live chat for a considerable time to get them removed.

If you're from the UK then you should use someone like William Hill, Betfair or Skybet. No verification needed and fast withdrawal times. If you want a slot specific site then use Casumo. The hundreds of other casinos are there to lure in those who self exclude.

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You are saying online gambling is more damaging than fobts but finish your post with online casino recommendations. Surely you should tell people not to gamble online full stop?

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21 minutes ago, Slotplayer said:

You are saying online gambling is more damaging than fobts but finish your post with online casino recommendations. Surely you should tell people not to gamble online full stop?

I was highlighting that there's no need to play at any other casino than the ones listed. It's also a huge problem that so many casinos keep popping up and are recommended by streamers to maximise profit. 

 

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56 minutes ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

The criticism for TV advertisements is also laughable considering the streamers are advertising unregulated content for hours on end and in many cases it's not fully explained that they are advertisements. The whole community stinks and just divert blame elsewhere. TV adverts have to be shown beyond the watershed and last a few seconds. Streamers advertise casinos with crazy bet stakes to a vulnerable portion of the gambling community for hours. There's no regulation at all and the little that is supposed to be adhered to isn't. 

Wow.... just.... that's all i'm saying

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1 hour ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

I find it laughable the current crusade against FOBTs which are seen as the UKs worst enemy because of bet size allowed and the frequency someone can spin on roulette etc. Actually to a compulsive gambler the online world of gambling is far more damaging. At least these machines which generate a random number similar to online roulette have caps on the amount that can be bet on a single spin. No such limitations are in place online. 

Streamers use these as a scapegoat to divert attention away from the dark side of online gambling. You can bet thousands every spin online but only a hundred in the bookmakers. 

The criticism for TV advertisements is also laughable considering the streamers are advertising unregulated content for hours on end and in many cases it's not fully explained that they are advertisements. The whole community stinks and just divert blame elsewhere. TV adverts have to be shown beyond the watershed and last a few seconds. Streamers advertise casinos with crazy bet stakes to a vulnerable portion of the gambling community for hours. There's no regulation at all and the little that is supposed to be adhered to isn't. 

Pressure should be put on the gambling commission and Gamcare etc to change this and not the streamer who has no interest in cutting their income to help addicts. 

Truth is that the reason why new casinos exist and are promoted is because the addicts have self excluded from the big players. New casinos like high roller really offer nothing different, it's just a fresh site where addicts can deposit and lose again. 

Streamers and their fans will argue that they offer another chance to get a bonus. These bonuses are extremely unfavourable and I would interested to see how many people actually cash out after taking one. Little to none I assume. This is verified by the fact you have to actually opt out of some of these bonuses and I have personally had to plead with live chat for a considerable time to get them removed.

If you're from the UK then you should use someone like William Hill, Betfair or Skybet. No verification needed and fast withdrawal times. If you want a slot specific site then use Casumo. The hundreds of other casinos are there to lure in those who self exclude.

Yes Online Gambling is far more damaging than Fobt's. Here in Sweden our local slot machines have a max bet of 6kr(0.6 euro). It's easy to see why the common person are more upset by those than online slots, they are visible in our society. A compulsive gambler sitting in the dark desperately gambling away yet another loan on their computer is not visible. Soon the people will awake and so will the government. 

The correlation between TV ads and Casino Streamers isn´t fair, as its quite easy to avoid the latter. Yes its probable that casino streamers core viewer base is largely made up of problem gamblers, might be why LeoVegas paid good money for CG as gambling addicts are their main income source as it is for any other online casino. No Gambling Addicts surely shouldn't watch any streams, but I feel that if the streamers helps to regulate the services on which they stream with the option of blocking gambling related content they have done their part and people should be able to make up their own minds. You also make it sound like there is a conspiracy by the streamers and that they are the key players in online gambling which seems quite odd honestly. 

As for High Roller and gamblers who have self-excluded, I don't think those problem gamblers you talk about that have self-excluded from many(Majority?) of the online casinos would not already be excluded from a sister site to High Roller which means that they should not be able to sign up at High Roller(yes I know some shady casinos allow for this anyway and then denies withdrawals). 

Edited by someguy123
Edited out a statement i didn´t feel i could back 100%
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Believe me when I say this, within 2 years there will either be very tight restrictions on streamers or they will disappear altogether. The very least that will happen is that the streams and videos will have ADVERTISEMENT written all over them.

Laugh at this statement all you wish but it's happening. Two have gone already. It's a matter of when, not if as highlighted by RocknRolla dropping affiliate links. A change is coming.

I know this from correspondence I've had with the regulatory bodies. I've been very active for a good 3 months conversing with such people. I won't go in to too many details because of the backlash I will receive (again) but can provide proof to those who disbelieve. It's going to take time but it will happen so enjoy it whilst it lasts.

For those against streamers get in touch with such regulators. Strength is in numbers.

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3 minutes ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

I was highlighting that there's no need to play at any other casino than the ones listed. It's also a huge problem that so many casinos keep popping up and are recommended by streamers to maximise profit. 

 

Well as this entire topic was created off the back of protecting problem gamblers I found it strange why you would even recommend any casino.

If you meant that casual gamblers are better off playing at the casinos you recommend I would endorse your recommndations but wouldn't necessarily exclude other reputable casinos.

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I will also add if streamers want to be affiliates then be affiliates for gamban or a gambling blocker. The core of their viewers want to stop gambling and I have no problem with them profiting in this way which is helpful to everyone. I'm all for people making a living, just not at the expense of the vulnerable.

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3 minutes ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

Believe me when I say this, within 2 years there will either be very tight restrictions on streamers or they will disappear altogether. The very least that will happen is that the streams and videos will have ADVERTISEMENT written all over them.

Laugh at this statement all you wish but it's happening. Two have gone already. It's a matter of when, not if as highlighted by RocknRolla dropping affiliate links. A change is coming.

I know this from correspondence I've had with the regulatory bodies. I've been very active for a good 3 months conversing with such people. I won't go in to too many details because of the backlash I will receive (again) but can provide proof to those who disbelieve. It's going to take time but it will happen so enjoy it whilst it lasts.

For those against streamers get in touch with such regulators. Strength is in numbers.

It is pretty clear from my stream that I promote a certain casino. There is a banner at the top.

So Paul stopped the links. How is that helping the addict that watches. Does it make his stream suddenly different and better?

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13 minutes ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

I will also add if streamers want to be affiliates then be affiliates for gamban or a gambling blocker. The core of their viewers want to stop gambling and I have no problem with them profiting in this way which is helpful to everyone. I'm all for people making a living, just not at the expense of the vulnerable.

Wrong.

That software should be made available free of charge!!

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12 minutes ago, Slotplayer said:

Wrong.

That software should be made available free of charge!!

Well it isn't. The streamers won't do it because it's all about greed and maximising revenue. That's why they push new casinos.

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1 minute ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

Well it isn't. The streamers won't do it because it's all about greed and maximising revenue. That's why they push new casinos.

If it makes you happy then I will link to the software. No skin off my nose because i don't want a problem gambler to spend more money.

And I won't affiliate that link because I don't want to profit from it.

I still say they should be made available free of charge so maybe you can contact Gamcare and ask them to negotiate with those software providers to get some free licenses to give out to those that seriously want to give up.

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@RyanMcSplooger If I may involve myself in this conversation, I would like to say that I think that you are wrong when saying that most bonuses are "unfavourable" and that close to none actually cash out from them.  Parachute bonuses (like LeoVegas, Winning Room, Dunder etc) are a second chance no matter what you say. They leave the money you deposit alone, and if you were to lose your deposit then you have that bonus to still get some enjoyment (and maybe even money) out of. I am not denying that there are bonuses on the market that are bad if they are taken, but that does not interfere with what we are talking about here on CG. We always strive to offer the people in this community the best bonuses available and I think that almost all streamers representing CasinoGrounds can agree on this. We would NEVER promote a casino where we personally would not play ourselves.

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If streamers want to affiliate for something, it should not be casino or online gambling.

 Reasoning: The core of the viewers want to stop gambling , somehow the streamers are making this difficult and you don´t like them making money this way

Solution: Streamers should affiliate for Gamban or a Gambling blocker, and focus their affiliation revenue on targeting the most problematic gamblers and only problematic gamblers

Reasoning: Unknown substances involved




Is this the definition of contradictive ?

 

Edited by Casinomon
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17 minutes ago, Huggehugg said:

@RyanMcSplooger If I may involve myself in this conversation, I would like to say that I think that you are wrong when saying that most bonuses are "unfavourable" and that close to none actually cash out from them.  Parachute bonuses (like LeoVegas, Winning Room, Dunder etc) are a second chance no matter what you say. They leave the money you deposit alone, and if you were to lose your deposit then you have that bonus to still get some enjoyment (and maybe even money) out of. I am not denying that there are bonuses on the market that are bad if they are taken, but that does not interfere with what we are talking about here on CG. We always strive to offer the people in this community the best bonuses available and I think that almost all streamers representing CasinoGrounds can agree on this. We would NEVER promote a casino where we personally would not play ourselves.

That's not the case for 90% of bonuses. Plus a player can get these without going to the streamer anyway. Bonuses are also sold as being exclusive to the streamer which is also a rogue activity. If it was to directly benefit the viewer then just include those bonuses and not the others. 

Youre a streamer and have picked up on one thing I've said. The list why you shouldn't be allowed to stream is extensive. The reasons for you being allowed to stream is very small.

 

 

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Listen you guys will never understand, you're part of the same group. You all agree streamers should be allowed to continue and for some strange reason you believe there is good in what you're doing.

I've put my points across. Let's see how it plays out in the long run.

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10 minutes ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

Listen you guys will never understand, you're part of the same group. You all agree streamers should be allowed to continue and for some strange reason you believe there is good in what you're doing.

I've put my points across. Let's see how it plays out in the long run.

You have a dialogue going and are now cutting that dialogue short.

Dialogue last time let to changes.

But I guess you won't stop until you get it your way and that is the end of all streaming, or is it just affiliate streaming because I am still unsure about it.

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Listen you guys will never understand, you're part of the same group. You all agree streamers should be allowed to continue and for some strange reason you believe there is good in what you're doing.

I've put my points across. Let's see how it plays out in the long run.

 

 

I don´t know man..... You have TV commercials, spam in your inbox, probably tons of newsletters as well.... Then you have a bunch of streamers promoting casinos when they gamble online themselves. Amongst these you have sincere genuine and passionate gamblers who love playing slots and managed to take it to the next level by sharing their gambling sessions and with their affiliate links generating the income that enables the streamer to often keep going even through hard times where others would have been forced to maybe stop gambling or taking a break. You also have the ones who are there purely for the money, you got individuals with high moral that cares a lot about each and every one of their viewers, and those who don´t give a *****.  

You can not just put them all in the same box. I am not actively streaming right now, mostly because I feel bad about making money on my viewers losses even though I know most of them want me to get as much of it as possible rather than the casino. Any revenue or comission I´ve ever made exceeding costs for rent and food (and energy drinks of course) , has gone straight into more and bigger deposits, bigger competitions and raffles, etc. I´ve never built any buffert and that is also why I have now completely ripped the streaming and my private finances on three different occasions through this journey. 

But how do you know who you can trust? Who is acting? Who is genuine? Who has good intentions and who doesn´t care? 

I suppose you can never truly know for certain, but knowing there is a group like casinogrounds, who as a group help eachother and ensure we only promote casinos with certain standards, as well as having the strength to help the members of community if anyone is clearly misstreated..... With a forum where you will get any questions answered, any mechanics, bonuses or terms explained by someone who is NOT the casino.........This is something that should be appreciated, and if I wasn´t a member of casinogrounds, if I ever had any concerns or doubts about a new casino or their routines, this is the place I would go for confirmation. I would not trust it a 100%, but I would trust it 500% more than any other source really. 

I am not here to change your opinion on Casinogrounds, but I am hoping you can at least agree that some of the points brought up are valid

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12 minutes ago, Slotplayer said:

You have a dialogue going and are now cutting that dialogue short.

Dialogue last time let to changes.

But I guess you won't stop until you get it your way and that is the end of all streaming, or is it just affiliate streaming because I am still unsure about it.

I didn't start this dialogue. I only wanted to throw my two cents in to show the OP he wasn't alone. 

I'm looking for a blanket ban on all streamers. Others want different things but until that happens then people will always want more changes. I didn't want to engage with streamers to make changes last time. That wasn't my doing.

At least you talk in a decent way SlotPlayer. I don't agree with what you say but you show me a level of respect I don't get anywhere else so kudos to you for that.

 

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online gambling is way more dangerous than fobts,

the payouts online may be better but u can lose far more money

 

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