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ban online casino streamers

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11 minutes ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

I didn't start this dialogue. I only wanted to throw my two cents in to show the OP he wasn't alone. 

I'm looking for a blanket ban on all streamers. Others want different things but until that happens then people will always want more changes. I didn't want to engage with streamers to make changes last time. That wasn't my doing.

At least you talk in a decent way SlotPlayer. I don't agree with what you say but you show me a level of respect I don't get anywhere else so kudos to you for that.

 

We are never going to agree on the streaming issue.

I can understand that banning streaming can be beneficial for the problem gambler but I don't agree that this would result in others not being able to enjoy it.

And to protect the problem gambler even further then perhaps extend the ban to all gambling material else it is a waste because the problem gambler will seek out that material instead, if they don't watch it already.

I rather no bans come in because we do live in a free society and there are tools available for the problem gambler already.

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9 minutes ago, TommyBhoy said:

online gambling is way more dangerous than fobts,

the payouts online may be better but u can lose far more money

 

Only for the problem gambler who shouldn't be playing either.

For the casual player that controls their gambling online is better for the reason you gave - better pay outs.

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14 hours ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

If you're from the UK then you should use someone like William Hill, Betfair or Skybet. No verification needed and fast withdrawal times. If you want a slot specific site then use Casumo. The hundreds of other casinos are there to lure in those who self exclude.

Utter garbage

WH took 7 days to process an acca win of £100 to me very recently - I have been using them since 2010 (ish), made withdrawals before etc, but the only withdrawal option online for some reason was bank transfer - then the chat agent said he would need verification docs to pay to my card (which i had deposited from) - then when i called them they processed by bank transfer with a timescale of 7-10 days - they took 7 days to process the money from their account (all of which time i could have reversed it of course). Available slots there is poor also.  AVOID WH.

As for Betfair, I'm not even going to start - had problems with them in 2012 and wont use them ever again.  And their selection of slots is terrible.  Both 'casinos' are Playtech based. They do run frequent bonuses, small amounts, free £5 here, £10 cashback there, but they never work properly.  They are a land based bookmaker who are clueless online.

Casumo and co are infintley better for online than these 2 bookies.

Edited by TechnoJoe

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17 hours ago, someguy123 said:

I think you misunderstood me, I never claimed that the streamer was. My point was that the argument "Gambling addicts are weak and only have themselves to blame" is hard to maintain when you look at the gambling industries intrusive advertisements. Pretty much on point with your last sentence, of course governments will have to step in and regulate because the industry itself are not willing and might not be able to with new casinos popping up every day.

I'm very sorry, but if you are a gambling addict (to the point where it affects your life and disposable income adversely, family etc) then you are absolutely weak imo.

Gambling online or land based is like every other product out there - we can choose whether we purchase it or not! I enjoy that freedom of choice.

Edited by TechnoJoe

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13 hours ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

I was highlighting that there's no need to play at any other casino than the ones listed. It's also a huge problem that so many casinos keep popping up and are recommended by streamers to maximise profit. 

 

eh, no.

 

lets say I had £200 i wanted to deposit for a session on the slots tonight.  Casumo, dont love me anymore, no deposit bonus.  yet i got 200% at another casino - happy as Larry.

 

This is another factor with the growth in the industry.  Competition - more casino's, better offers and promotions available for the punter.  Suppply and demand.

 

I busted out tonight if ur interested, but thats not the point.

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13 hours ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

Believe me when I say this, within 2 years there will either be very tight restrictions on streamers or they will disappear altogether. The very least that will happen is that the streams and videos will have ADVERTISEMENT written all over them.

 

How will this be accomplished?  Lets say the UK bans casino streaming (which they wont, because it cant be effected properly) - well the casino streamer will just stream to the other 194 countries in the world.  Banning streaming is a futile venture. Is every government on earth going to band together to ban casimo streaming world wide - no.  streaming will continue, because unless access to the internet is completely prohibited in your country then it will always be accessible.

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12 hours ago, Casinomon said:

 Reasoning: The core of the viewers want to stop gambling , somehow the streamers are making this difficult and you don´t like them making money this way

Solution: Streamers should affiliate for Gamban or a Gambling blocker, and focus their affiliation revenue on targeting the most problematic gamblers and only problematic gamblers

Reasoning: Unknown substances involved


 

lol thats a nail thats been hit squarely on the head

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12 hours ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

Listen you guys will never understand, you're part of the same group. You all agree streamers should be allowed to continue and for some strange reason you believe there is good in what you're doing.

I've put my points across. Let's see how it plays out in the long run.

Pick ur dummy up son

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sorry for the series for posts, i wanted to reply to some that i had read for first time since yesterday

 

And Ryan, I'm sure you mean well, but you are misguided.  You have no right to determine, or attempt to influence, what other adults may or may not do (within the confines of law)

Wheres the OP at - presumably furiously emailing his MP.

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3 hours ago, TechnoJoe said:

Pick ur dummy up son

Your replies are childish and you have zero credibility. There's ways of talking to people, regardless of how passionate you are (either side). You sound like an idiot.

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@RyanMcSplooger I agree ,  he is  very childish but not as childish as that laughing stock @Slotspinner

@TechnoJoe why cant u and the rest of the sheep here on cg just acknowledge that some people find the streams offensive?  I know it will take a big incident to get the streamers banned .  This will happen eventually.  We are all entitled to our own opinion.

Why has casinogrounds even bothered having a RG section on this forum when its clear as day nobody gives an eff about RG on this forum.   

The forum streamers were all down to earth guys to begin with.  Look at them now! Really sad in my opinion.

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@TechnoJoe talking about who to avoid lets start with leovegas

complaints all over the net, rogue behaviour in the past

rather deal with William Hill or Betfair than Leovegas any day of the week.

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8 minutes ago, TommyBhoy said:

@RyanMcSplooger I agree ,  he is  very childish but not as childish as that laughing stock @Slotspinner

@TechnoJoe why cant u and the rest of the sheep here on cg just acknowledge that some people find the streams offensive?  I know it will take a big incident to get the streamers banned .  This will happen eventually.  We are all entitled to our own opinion.

Why has casinogrounds even bothered having a RG section on this forum when its clear as day nobody gives an eff about RG on this forum.   

The forum streamers were all down to earth guys to begin with.  Look at them now! Really sad in my opinion.

You accuse somebody of being childish to then continue with your insulting and childish posts yourself.

Time to look in the mirror.

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To follow on and talking about acknowledgement.

Streamers have made changes.

Streamers do acknowledge that their material can be dangerous for problem gamblers.

On the other hand, the anti brigade can't acknowledge that streaming and affiliation is a legal means of earning money and until such time it is deemed illegal then the streamers can continue to operate providing they comply with existing regulations and guidance.

At no point have the anti brigade attempted to find a middle ground. It is either their way or no way.

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38 minutes ago, Slotplayer said:

To follow on and talking about acknowledgement.

Streamers have made changes.

Streamers do acknowledge that their material can be dangerous for problem gamblers.

On the other hand, the anti brigade can't acknowledge that streaming and affiliation is a legal means of earning money and until such time it is deemed illegal then the streamers can continue to operate providing they comply with existing regulations and guidance.

At no point have the anti brigade attempted to find a middle ground. It is either their way or no way.

I know fine well its legal, never said it wasnt.  I also know it will take a big incident to stop streamers ie someone harming themselves through gambling addiction and there parents coming out and saying yeah he watched streamers for 3 hours a day. .  Its immoral though.  Your promoting a product that is potentially causing people to end up with all types of financial problems.  If you can do that then thats upto you.    Adults make there own choices yes but your potentially drawing addicts back in. That is a fact.

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 I´d just like to add one point

The streamers did NOT create the gamblers/viewers, it´s the other way around. Some comments about some streamers turning into this and that, definitely there has been a lot of changes and it´s not like it was in the "vanilla time" of casino streaming. What happened to the guys that we´re playing 20 cent and 40 cent bets on JATB and Gonzos ? That were insanely excited for a €160 win and a €1k win was like a lifechanging jackpot? Did they suddenly decide that they don´t like gambling and switched focus on affiliation and revenue for income purposes, as opposed to why most of them started streaming in the first place?

Probably not...... The VIEWERS created what the streamers are today. As a streamer, I want to entertain my viewers, I want everyone to feel good, be happy,  and keep on improving. 
At a certain point however, your viewer base will reach a point where you can´t be as "down to earth" as you used to be. Suddenly it´s challenging, it´s not easy to be streaming for 200 or 500+ people and it takes a LOT of focus and energy to keep up with everything at the same time as you try keeping everyone happy. Then if you are serious about what you are doing, as you grow, you will get much attention from all possible directions, you will have to keep updated with regulations and policies, MGA, UKGCA , etc. 

Add some competitions and raffles, tons of whispers and so on...... 

As a streamer, you have to adapt after your audience to some extent. Either that, or simply end up streaming for the same 15 people over and over again for the rest of your life. But that would not generate the revenue needed to place, according to the viewers based on results, big enough bets to make it interesting. So 13 of these would probably go as well and then you are there alone with 2 moderators and nothing to do. 

As a viewer, if you rather watch someone play responsibly with maybe low stakes and good bankroll management , rather than someone advertising giveaways and doing €20 spins or more like if it was spare change, that is super fine. and if all was the same, streaming would probably look different today. But the numbers speak for themselves when it comes to what YOU, the VIEWERS want to watch. 

Remember, you create your own world, individually and collectively. If you don´t watch casino streams, they don´t exists. If you only watch €10k bankrolls with €50 bets, thats the only way to play casino and absolutely normal. If you watch €20 bankrolls and 10 cent bets only, then that becomes the standard in your world and the second you see a €10 bet you think the person is out of his mind. 

 

 

I am sure there are streamers in it for the money, just as well as there are streamers who just want to keep on streaming. Either way, none of it is possible without adapting to the viewers. You get what you create

Edited by Casinomon

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29 minutes ago, TommyBhoy said:

I know fine well its legal, never said it wasnt.  I also know it will take a big incident to stop streamers ie someone harming themselves through gambling addiction and there parents coming out and saying yeah he watched streamers for 3 hours a day. .  Its immoral though.  Your promoting a product that is potentially causing people to end up with all types of financial problems.  If you can do that then thats upto you.    Adults make there own choices yes but your potentially drawing addicts back in. That is a fact.

Think abour the children... That old chestnut. Parents have a greater responsibility than the streamer to make sure their offspring don't watch stuff not intended for them.

Fact also is that the addict should not be watching me and other than banning streaming I would love to know how I can do just that.

So then clever cloggs, give me the solution and I implement it immediately.

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11 hours ago, TechnoJoe said:

I'm very sorry, but if you are a gambling addict (to the point where it affects your life and disposable income adversely, family etc) then you are absolutely weak imo.

Gambling online or land based is like every other product out there - we can choose whether we purchase it or not! I enjoy that freedom of choice.

I do sincerely hope that none of your family or closest friends ever gets inflicted with any kind of addiction. Just the thought someone being around their closest relationships and believing that they are lesser people and weak is a sad thought.

I have no idea what being a compulsive gambler is like but my believe is that the "crack cocaine of gambling"(online slots) is just that to a person with addictive gambling personality. The accounts of compulsive gamblers are always the same, I truly wanted to stop but I had no control over my brain nor my body. Studies also show that gambling for any person changes the chemical balance in the brain. For those who are depressive, manic or compulsive they show a chemical imbalance that are like something we have never seen in other non-drug addictions. 

If you have the time I can really recommend and article from the Atlantic, https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/12/losing-it-all/505814/ 

It's a well-written article with interesting stories. It's a good read even for persons that are not interested in this kind of gambling or any gambling.

11 hours ago, TechnoJoe said:

sorry for the series for posts, i wanted to reply to some that i had read for first time since yesterday

 

And Ryan, I'm sure you mean well, but you are misguided.  You have no right to determine, or attempt to influence, what other adults may or may not do (within the confines of law)

Wheres the OP at - presumably furiously emailing his MP.

Yes you really should use the Multi-quote option as writing seven posts and some with only one sentence really disrupt the flow of conversation.

4 hours ago, Slotplayer said:

To follow on and talking about acknowledgement.

Streamers have made changes.

Streamers do acknowledge that their material can be dangerous for problem gamblers.

On the other hand, the anti brigade can't acknowledge that streaming and affiliation is a legal means of earning money and until such time it is deemed illegal then the streamers can continue to operate providing they comply with existing regulations and guidance.

At no point have the anti brigade attempted to find a middle ground. It is either their way or no way.

3 hours ago, Slotplayer said:

Think abour the children... That old chestnut. Parents have a greater responsibility than the streamer to make sure their offspring don't watch stuff not intended for them.

Fact also is that the addict should not be watching me and other than banning streaming I would love to know how I can do just that.

So then clever cloggs, give me the solution and I implement it immediately.

I find it curious that when you compile the list over persons you believe are in the "anti brigade". You either doesn't include me or you don't think my opinion on the matter lands somewhere in the middle. If its the former then you shouldn't be surprised that if you compile a list with those who have the most extreme views you will not find a compromise within that list. If it's the latter I'm curious how my stance that Youtube and Twitch should block gambling related content from viewers that doesn't have an account and give those who have an account the ability to block gambling related content themselves doesn't qualify as an compromise. This is not something you can implement, but streamers and viewers could work together to push the companies into implementing it. 

Yes parents do have a responsibility for their children but they cant watch over them all day ever day. Parents should be able to feel secure that businesses  doesn't target their children for monetary gains(when it comes to adult entertainment), maybe you haven't read the story about "TmarTn" that created an online gambling site using skins from CSGO as currency. He deceived his audience with youtube videos showing big wins on that site not disclosing that he owned it, furthermore his audience was young and the majority was 13-16 years old. Then we have Valve who maintained the bots and the market system to let underage customers to gamble on these sites. To have a stance that neither of these entities would have any responsibility on their actions with the knowledge that they are making money on supplying gambling to 13 year old's are absurd to me.

Yes it is completely possible to gain skins with extreme value without using their parents credit cards, so saying that the parents should be able and control this solely on the reason that a credit card would have to be used for purchasing skins is not valid.

Edited by someguy123

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Well my streams are not targetted towards children. On Twitch they are in the casino section and you need to be 18 to view them and have an account. If kids decide to falsify accounts to be able to watch it, then sorry but I am not responsible for that.

As I said before we been here before. There is another topic on this forum a few months ago. The streamers made changes following feedback but this obviously is not good enough for some, hence the creation of this topic.

As to your first paragraph, in your first post I acknowledged that there were some interesting points raised. My point about acknowledgement were more directed towards the OP, Ryan, Johnyboy who don't appear to want to compromise and want it to go all their way.

And I say it again - I don't want to refer a problem gambler to a casino, I don't paticularly want him to watch me but I need the tools to do so. And not streaming is not the option because those that enjoy watching streams shouldn't have to suffer.

The option to only watch streams via opt in only is great as long as the streams are able to be found via search.

Edited by Slotplayer

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21 minutes ago, Slotplayer said:

Well my streams are not targetted towards children. On Twitch they are in the casino section and you need to be 18 to view them and have an account. If kids decide to falsify accounts to be able to watch it, then sorry but I am not responsible for that.

As I said before we been here before. There is another topic on this forum a few months ago. The streamers made changes following feedback but this obviously is not good enough for some, hence the creation of this topic.

As to your first paragraph, in your first post I acknowledged that there were some interesting points raised. My point about acknowledgement were more directed towards the OP, Ryan, Johnyboy who don't appear to want to compromise and want it to go all their way.

And I say it again - I don't want to refer a problem gambler to a casino, I don't paticularly want him to watch me but I need the tools to do so. And not streaming is not the option because those that enjoy watching streams shouldn't have to suffer.

The option to only watch streams via opt in only is great as long as the streams are able to be found via search.

The problem with compromise is that unless action is enforced by regulatory bodies then streamers will avoid making any substantial changes because it's not a legality. People like myself have no power over what streamers do. 

If a solution was put forward that stops addicts viewing such content then I would be all for it. There isn't such a solution though. If you take away the addicts then the income of the streamer will be severely effected so I doubt they would want to do anything. 

Will also echo what has been said about YouTube. It's a huge platform accessible to anyone and everyone and I don't believe such content should be viewed by everyone. Minors and addicts are viewing this content, that's undeniable. A ban is the only solution in my eyes for these reasons.

 

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12 minutes ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

The problem with compromise is that unless action is enforced by regulatory bodies then streamers will avoid making any substantial changes because it's not a legality. People like myself have no power over what streamers do. 

If a solution was put forward that stops addicts viewing such content then I would be all for it. There isn't such a solution though. If you take away the addicts then the income of the streamer will be severely effected so I doubt they would want to do anything. 

Will also echo what has been said about YouTube. It's a huge platform accessible to anyone and everyone and I don't believe such content should be viewed by everyone. Minors and addicts are viewing this content, that's undeniable. A ban is the only solution in my eyes for these reasons.

 

Well I am for one welcome the solution for somebody to self exclude from my streams so to speak. I have consistently said this in this topic and also during the streams that PaulD did a few months ago.

There used to be a piece of software that not only blocked casino sites, it also blocked websites such as these and believe it or not gambling videos too. I trialled it for a few days and it refused to let me watch The Bandit. Unfortunately it has been discontinued.

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9 hours ago, someguy123 said:

I do sincerely hope that none of your family or closest friends ever gets inflicted with any kind of addiction. Just the thought someone being around their closest relationships and believing that they are lesser people and weak is a sad thought.

I have no idea what being a compulsive gambler is like but my believe is that the "crack cocaine of gambling"(online slots) is just that to a person with addictive gambling personality. The accounts of compulsive gamblers are always the same, I truly wanted to stop but I had no control over my brain nor my body. Studies also show that gambling for any person changes the chemical balance in the brain. For those who are depressive, manic or compulsive they show a chemical imbalance that are like something we have never seen in other non-drug addictions. 

If you have the time I can really recommend and article from the Atlantic, https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/12/losing-it-all/505814/ 

It's a well-written article with interesting stories. It's a good read even for persons that are not interested in this kind of gambling or any gambling.

Yes you really should use the Multi-quote option as writing seven posts and some with only one sentence really disrupt the flow of conversation.

I find it curious that when you compile the list over persons you believe are in the "anti brigade". You either doesn't include me or you don't think my opinion on the matter lands somewhere in the middle. If its the former then you shouldn't be surprised that if you compile a list with those who have the most extreme views you will not find a compromise within that list. If it's the latter I'm curious how my stance that Youtube and Twitch should block gambling related content from viewers that doesn't have an account and give those who have an account the ability to block gambling related content themselves doesn't qualify as an compromise. This is not something you can implement, but streamers and viewers could work together to push the companies into implementing it. 

Yes parents do have a responsibility for their children but they cant watch over them all day ever day. Parents should be able to feel secure that businesses  doesn't target their children for monetary gains(when it comes to adult entertainment), maybe you haven't read the story about "TmarTn" that created an online gambling site using skins from CSGO as currency. He deceived his audience with youtube videos showing big wins on that site not disclosing that he owned it, furthermore his audience was young and the majority was 13-16 years old. Then we have Valve who maintained the bots and the market system to let underage customers to gamble on these sites. To have a stance that neither of these entities would have any responsibility on their actions with the knowledge that they are making money on supplying gambling to 13 year old's are absurd to me.

Yes it is completely possible to gain skins with extreme value without using their parents credit cards, so saying that the parents should be able and control this solely on the reason that a credit card would have to be used for purchasing skins is not valid.

I would use the multi quote function, but it makes the individual post far too long, arduous, and just a chore, like the one I've just quoted - didnt get half way through yours - seems like you read all of mines.  Funny eh?

Edited by TechnoJoe

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17 hours ago, RyanMcSplooger said:

Your replies are childish and you have zero credibility. There's ways of talking to people, regardless of how passionate you are (either side). You sound like an idiot.

Dont you have a stream to dislike or something - go find Paul D and you can do it together, just dont mention each others name.

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Ryan im really surprised to find you here banging on about affiliation.  I remember you bragging about how you earned thousands every month through product affiliation.  If you done a bit of research you would know that leading experts are concerned shopping addiction is fast becoming  a bigger problem than alcohol, drugs and GAMBLING!!! With it affecting up to 10% of the population and it leading to debt,family break ups, depression and even suicide.  Go and google it and you will see im not making it up

Edited by Alan_smith
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1 hour ago, Alan_smith said:

Ryan im really surprised to find you here banging on about affiliation.  I remember you bragging about how you earned thousands every month through product affiliation.  If you done a bit of research you would know that leading experts are concerned shopping addiction is fast becoming  a bigger problem than alcohol, drugs and GAMBLING!!! With it affecting up to 10% of the population and it leading to debt,family break ups, depression and even suicide.  Go and google it and you will see im not making it up

That's right Alan. I ran a website which found very low cost items from Amazon. No product cost more than £20. Can't see many people killing themselves over an 80% saving on hair straighteners and such to be fair. Unless the prices were just too incredibly low and shocked them to death. I once found a free vacuum on there after you applied a coupon and posted it. Maybe that's what finished them off.

Seriously people try to use ANYTHING against me. In this thread there is accusations of me disliking videos on multiple accounts. Yesterday I was accused of extortion (yes, you heard correctly) and telling people to report accounts using multiple aliases, I also get accused of being troll every day. I wonder who this Alan Smith is? I can guarantee that's not his name and is just another maniac troll who follows me around on the internet trying to intimidate me. Like I said, the community is toxic.

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