Dreamvegas (Whitehatgaming) removed my winnings after i hit 1750x on Jammin Jars!

[JamminAMY]

I joined dreamvegas and made my first deposit for 200 euros and was given a bonus, from this i had a massive win on jammin jars for around 7200 Euros, i finished the wagering and cleared the bonus funds to cash withdrawal funds. At this point Dream Vegas removed the winnings and said deposits made with neteller are not eligible. Imagine my feeling and to lose 7200 euro because of Neteller. At first i was so emotional and confused but now I'm just so angry. 

I am actually disgusted by what they're doing to me. it is their responsibility to award or not to award me a bonus from how i deposited. The fact they awarded me a bonus to play with is their fault. How is it fair to award the bonus when i have no chance to win! I was literally in a lose/lose situation. They should have a system in place to stop bonuses being awarded for certain deposit methods. They first quoted the terms to me as  "Deposits with Neteller are not eligible, and if taken winnings will be confiscated" however when i looked for myself it says at the bottom of the bonus page "Deposits with Neteller are not eligible" they only added the part about confiscating winnings into the email.

Its happened to me before when i joined a casino and deposited asked live chat for a bonus and they said deposits with Neteller are not eligible for a bonus. That's how it should be done. 

I feel so powerless and stressed out, I really don't think its fair to lose this. A win like this (1750x) could be once in a lifetime and i can't even enjoy it. 

I enjoy watching many of the twitch streamers and my hope is one of the guys will see my post here and has contacts at the Casino or White Hat Gaming group who can help. 

Also any other advice would be greatly appreciated. 

[JamminAMY]

Anything you guys can do to help pls?

@Daskelelele @LetsGiveItASpin @Slotspinner @CasinoDaddy 

 

[anonymousapple]

Although their system seems shit to be granting the bonus, they didn't really hide the terms or anything though. That being said, you mentioned they took your winnings away, did they restore the original deposit? 

 

[JamminAMY]

They've offered me my deposit back. Yes they have that point regarding deposits with Neteller however it doesn't say anything about confiscating winnings. I just feel to award the bonus even though i used Neteller seems a deliberate way to push me to doing something wrong. They apply the point 7 to me after i completely finish the bonus surely this sort of thing is against the rules and regulations set for Casinos. 

What different outcome would of occurred had i used any other depositing method? I still would of won! This is so over the top and harsh. They should accept they made the mistake in awarding a bonus and let me keep my win.

 

[ryans_slots]

It's sad they removed the money from your player account/confiscated however its clearly not eligble for skrill/neteller which is MOST casinos for the welcome bonus. It's your duty as a player to read the terms and ask live chat and stuff to be sure that you are/aren't allowed to play.

I can tell you that you won't get anywhere with this, its a tough lesson to learn.

[JamminAMY]

Ryan i have to disagree with you. As much as I have duty to read the terms the casino has a duty to act fairly and honestly. To award the bonus is a deliberate ploy to go against their own rules which leaves them in a win/win situation and me lose/lose.

I'm sorry if i don't speak to live chat every single time i've played with a bonus. Let me add it took me two days to finish the wagering requirements for the bonus, so what stopped livechat or support contacting me about the problem? Or is it always the players fault? 

 

[Natb0412]

Casino is 100% in the right. It is scummy AF and should be regulated, but like a lot of casino stuff, it isnt regulated well enough.

You should just get your deposit back and move on with your life, 7200 quid is a HUGE amount of cash, but you will never see it, as you clearly breached the t&c:

Just to clear it up, im 100% on your side, and think that this kind of behaviour from casinos is despicable. They should ofc block you from using neteller/skrill when its not eligible, but they will not until laws change. Thats just life unfortunately, money is all they care about  

[anonymousapple]

35 minutes ago, JamminAMY said:

Ryan i have to disagree with you. As much as I have duty to read the terms the casino has a duty to act fairly and honestly. To award the bonus is a deliberate ploy to go against their own rules which leaves them in a win/win situation and me lose/lose.

I'm sorry if i don't speak to live chat every single time i've played with a bonus. Let me add it took me two days to finish the wagering requirements for the bonus, so what stopped livechat or support contacting me about the problem? Or is it always the players fault? 

 

He's just saying to ask if you're not sure. It should be common practice for players to read the terms of the bonus they take.. since it involves other factors like stakes restriction, games restriction and so on. As i said above, they didn't even hide it and its right below the maximum stakes allowed, if you saw that you should have asked/clarified with them first. Just take the deposit back and move on

[JamminAMY]

I cant just get on with my life after getting that win and losing it over something so silly. I would understand if i broke any other terms like max bet or disallowed games but not like this. This would not hold up in a court room so I will not give up hope that we can resolve this fairly. 

@DerbyCHAN Sorry its abit hard to "just move on" when else am i going to get a 1750x win on a slot game? I've played slots for many years and never had a win like this. That defeatist attitude is no help, the blame is on both sides.

[anonymousapple]

8 minutes ago, JamminAMY said:

I cant just get on with my life after getting that win and losing it over something so silly. I would understand if i broke any other terms like max bet or disallowed games but not like this. This would not hold up in a court room so I will not give up hope that we can resolve this fairly. 

Actually the court would most likely side with the bookie/casino in this case. There have been multiple cases where they offered the wrong odds to customers and they successfully defended the cases because they have terms in regards to what they call a 'palpable' error in their T&C which in other words means an 'obvious mistake' where if applying your facts onto this, it would be an obvious mistake to grant you the additional bonus funds although their T&C clearly stated that deposits via Neteller is ineligible. Of course there are exceptions and contrasting cases but thats only where the bookie has been extremely misleading and hiding the terms in 50 pages of T&C where it would be absurd to expect a reasonable consumer to read through everything. In your case, its literally pasted in the front page and/or on the right side of the large banner. If you feel you legitimately have a case, feel free to find someone in your local area that specializes in this area of law or alternatively you could just do it yourself by filing a claim form and following the correct protocols (in which this case it exceeds 7000 euros so i assume it would not be under small claims- varies depending on jurisdiction), i only have a rough idea of EU jurisdiction as i majored in UK law.

Cheers.

[JamminAMY]

Offering wrong odds to customers is different to potentially deliberately pushing someone to break the terms. Foul play will not win in court no matter the contract agreements. I've already seen many winning cases for players "player vs casino's T&Cs" in court, ive been researching a lot this week. If you've seen different please PM me the links.

Maybe you work in the casino industry so you're looking at it from a different angle?

[anonymousapple]

23 minutes ago, JamminAMY said:

Offering wrong odds to customers is different to potentially deliberately pushing someone to break the terms. Foul play will not win in court no matter the contract agreements. I've already seen many winning cases for players "player vs casino's T&Cs" in court, ive been researching a lot this week. If you've seen different please PM me the links.

Maybe you work in the casino industry so you're looking at it from a different angle?

Im not involved in the casino industry and im just commenting from a neutral position because what happens to you or the casino doesn't affect me at all. 

Quote

" I've already seen many winning cases for players "player vs casino's T&Cs" in court, ive been researching a lot this week."

First you have to look at the jurisdiction in which the case was decided and the level of Court that decided it. Secondly, if your reading was only based on articles or random comments online, then I would ask u to read the full judgment which is available publicly unless they are extremely old and find the rationale behind the decision as those comments or articles tend to cherry pick certain details of the case. The cases where the Court would rule in favor of the player would be when the casino had been extremely dishonest and/or difficult such as hiding one fine term in 50 pages of T&C and expecting the player to read all of that. 

However, in your scenario, the fact that deposits via Neteller should not be eligible for the bonus is advertised along with the promotional bonus in question like the screenshot I have pasted above. Honestly, it would be unreasonable to expect players to go through 50 pages of T&C before registering an account or taking a bonus but it would not be unreasonable to expect them to read the basic terms which they have placed alongside the promotional banner as it is expected that players would/should read the basic terms as they include wagering requirements, restrictions (stakes, and in this case the Neteller restriction). Hence, I find it unlikely that based on your set of facts that the Court would rule in your favor if you were to pursue a claim against the casino.

[JamminAMY]

I've just seen a similar thread here https://casinogrounds.com/forum/topic/29781-confiscate-winnings/

Notice what @Slotspinner says "Good casinos dont credit the bonus if you use a deposit method that is not allowed. Rogue playing casinos do exactly what happened here."

So this happened to someone else in 09/2019 and the same group have done nothing to fix it happening again. Its their responsibility to give bonuses or not. If i deposited and didn't get a bonus that's fine, but the fact they gave the bonus to leave me in a lose/lose situation no matter what happens is not right. If i had lost i guarantee the deposit wouldn't be returned.

 

[Orzabot]

i can fully understand you @JamminAMY it must be so frustrating, would have been better to just rip it all. Than think you had won and then get zero.

But like others said i really hope you would get the money, but to be honest i think it is over because you clearly broke a rule written in the terms. Imo the casino could have given you some kind of compentation.

Please try to take a break from this for at least 24 hour, and then you should be able to see that you did not loose anything you even got your deposit back, the only thing you lost is a prize that you never won because you broke the rules.

I know it must be hard but try to let it or it will eat you up more and more because you will never get what you want

i have also learned some tough lesson, because i did not read all the terms. But since that i always read all the terms, check out reviews from different sites and last if there is something i am not sure about i understand i ask the chat.

[JamminAMY]

15 minutes ago, DerbyCHAN said:

However, in your scenario, the fact that deposits via Neteller should not be eligible for the bonus is advertised along with the promotional bonus in question like the screenshot I have pasted above. Honestly, it would be unreasonable to expect players to go through 50 pages of T&C before registering an account or taking a bonus but it would not be reasonable to expect them to read the basic terms which they have placed alongside the promotional banner as it is expected that players would/should read the basic terms as they include wagering requirements, restrictions (stakes, and in this case the Neteller restriction). Hence, I find it unlikely that based on your set of facts that the Court would rule in your favor if you were to pursue a claim against the casino.

I really wouldn't want it to get as far as a court room. I hope we can figure something out. The money is life changing to me atm. Hypothetically if this was challenged legally, I would argue the actions of the Casino in knowingly awarding the bonus for a restricted deposit method (I can also see its happened to players 10 months ago) and also argue the case that i could of hit the same win had they not incorrectly awarded me the bonus. I'm not a legal expert at all and i will off course get proper legal help should i need to. I am hoping they reconsider. 

[Orzabot]

11 minutes ago, JamminAMY said:

I've just seen a similar thread here https://casinogrounds.com/forum/topic/29781-confiscate-winnings/

Notice what @Slotspinner says "Good casinos dont credit the bonus if you use a deposit method that is not allowed. Rogue playing casinos do exactly what happened here."

So this happened to someone else in 09/2019 and the same group have done nothing to fix it happening again. Its their responsibility to give bonuses or not. If i deposited and didn't get a bonus that's fine, but the fact they gave the bonus to leave me in a lose/lose situation no matter what happens is not right. If i had lost i guarantee the deposit wouldn't be returned.

 

while you quote slotspinner to make you point more valid. Then you forgot to quote him saying this from the same thread "

So you breached the terms of the welcome bonus ?

Well its kinda rogue to let you take the bonus with skrill or neteller but not pay the winnings, but you shouldve read that before depositing."

so if it is better to hear it from him, then what he said there can also be used here. Sorry but that one you asked for yourself

•  

[JamminAMY]

Im sorry Orzabot i don't see what you're getting at. Yes i missed the term which said "Deposits with Neteller are not Eligible" Im very upset that i missed it. It was not done on purpose. However i don't agree with the actions from the Casino, if it was an argument of who's in the wrong more i would of thought its the casino? Neteller and Skrill are very popular, how many other people may have deposited after joining and got the bonus and thought its ok to play? I guess many, but Its only ok to play if you lose. I like bonuses, its extra money to play with and I'm sure many other people do to, so how many people would actually go to live chat in this scenario and say "you've given me a bonus can you confirm i am allowed to play with it. It seems like a trap, it should never be awarded. 

[Orzabot]

5 minutes ago, JamminAMY said:

Im sorry Orzabot i don't see what you're getting at. Yes i missed the term which said "Deposits with Neteller are not Eligible" Im very upset that i missed it. It was not done on purpose. However i don't agree with the actions from the Casino, if it was an argument of who's in the wrong more i would of thought its the casino? Neteller and Skrill are very popular, how many other people may have deposited after joining and got the bonus and thought its ok to play? I guess many, but Its only ok to play if you lose. I like bonuses, its extra money to play with and I'm sure many other people do to, so how many people would actually go to live chat in this scenario and say "you've given me a bonus can you confirm i am allowed to play with it. It seems like a trap, it should never be awarded. 

again read the terms in the future to avoid any problems, that is my point that you missed.

[dirtystack]

They need to change their system so that it warns you when depositing via netteller that you can’t get a bonus and ask if you want to proceed.
 

They handle the bonuses well in other ways, ie; when you go to a game, prohibited to be played with bonus money, the game shows only your cash balance. 
 

I don’t see why they can’t tweak, alert, their system to differentiate deposit methods and bonus eligibility automatically.

Should offer you some goodwill.
 

Did you get your deposit at least?

 

[JamminAMY]

I agree the system should be changed before any more damage. This happened to someone here 10 months ago and most likely many more. It shouldn't be to hard to change?

The actual site at dreamvegas is great, the layout and the best games i was enjoying it very much (Winning helps) but this problem obviously changed that. The Brand White Hat Gaming has many Casinos so they must be huge, they could easily act fairly and payout and wouldn't affect them. I feel like i genuinely haven't done anything wrong, even though saying that will annoy some people here. T&Cs are not supposed to be used to bully people imo, mistakes like these could/should be resolved in good faith.

Yes my deposit is returned to my account and no offer of goodwill

[dirtystack]

I’d write them a complaint, be clear that it is a formal complaint.

Don’t go emotionally offensive - insinuating they are bullying you won’t get you anywhere.

Objectively they are not bullying you even though you feel bullied.

Relay to them how this situation has made you feel and express to them any damage you feel it has done to your mental wellbeing. 
 

Tell them that it has been stressful enough that you will lodge a formal complaint with an Official complaints service if they don’t address how their system works.

Ask them which of the complaints services they are most comfortable working with.

Might result in some goodwill, maybe force them to fix their system.

If they fail to respond to you within 8 weeks(might be 4, can’t remember), or don’t answer your queries as to which complaints service to use then they are not following complaint guidelines and it will lend weight to your case.

[Teamkayenne]

Unfortunately this is something that all sister casinos of dreamvegas have. (I think) 

The terms were there. You had to read them.

The casino usually doesn't make the system decline the bonus for e-wallet deposits because it's ''easier'' 

By the time terms have this restriction it's up to them if they will confiscate your winnings. They did. 

[JamminAMY]

I've checked the whole website T&Cs for Dreamvegas and cant find any relation to confiscating winnings for depositing with Neteller and getting the bonus. They state other reasons for confiscating winnings but nothing relating to Neteller. I've added an attachment to show the list of things they will confiscate winnings for. 

Now in the bonus rules they state "Deposits made by skrill or Neteller not eligible" 

Compare that to the rule on max bet stakes "The maximum bet allowed whilst the welcome bonus is in play is 5€. Should you bet higher than this while the welcome bonus is in play, we reserve the right to confiscate all winnings."

Here they clearly state you will lose the winnings if you bet above max bet. There is a difference in the two comparisons. Not one single time do they state they will confiscate winnings for depositing with Neteller. So i'm even more shocked. 

I wish they'd just say ok whats happened has happened, you got a bonus by mistake but it is what it is and let me keep the funds, i wouldn't even mind if they told me i have to wager the bonus again as a condition and restore my balance or whatever. To flat out just take the money away over something so small is to harsh. 

[Slotplayer]

From you quoted T'S and C's that lists items that result in confiscating of winnings, it is made clear that this list is not an exhaustive list. It clearly says "Such breaches include, but are not limited to"

Unless the terms are unreasonable, then you may not have a case. The bonus terms are pretty straight forward and clear.... if you deposit with Neteller or Skrill you are not legible for a bonus.

I would not waste money on a solicitor or court case as you will be set to lose.

[JamminAMY]

Do you think the Casino should state If i deposit with Neteller what the consequences would be? As like they did when referring to breaching max bet rules or other breaches where it clearly says what would happen.. @Slotplayer 

I'm not eligible but they gave it, that's their responsibility. I never hacked them or tricked them into a bonus! I'm not sure why so many people here are negative towards my dispute with the Casino and automatically think it would lose. It is possible to resolve things, the casino is not always right or do they always win. Over here in Ireland another girl sued Bet365 for 1 Million Euros for a dispute over the T&Cs and eventually settled with a Win and that's against the biggest casino/betting operator in the world.