Jump to content
General slot talk
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
  • forum-small-banner-promo-wild-cauldron.jpg

Play and go rigged?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, chiefemptybottle said:

Actually they do, there's one famous comment to data on 2+2: If its random, how come scatters always make it below the line, or just above in a "tease" setup? - How come premiums suddenly stop appearing in a bonus when hit? - How come when you play 3 or 1 line in a 10 (or more) line game the big wins hit on a non paying line? etc etc - So, they do ACTIVELY work against you. A majority of the casinos "lie" about the real RTP (e.g Leovegas) who write BOD to 96.xx but actually are the lowest possible on PnG 92.xx. (The Casino's can decide this themselves on Play'n'Go machines, but with a fixed minimum).

I dont even think you understand what semantics mean? You can't use the term in a casino debate. The term are used a lot in hyped intellectual conversations, but people docent seem to know what it actually mean. Rigged is the word to use, since casino's are "deliberately" fixed. There's no such thing as "random" since the generated "random number" go through filters that destroy the random in itself totally.

The only thing that must be accurate is the symbols displayed. Symbols above and below the winning area can be whatever the game developer wants. Some providers are lazy and just randomize the symbols above and below the winning area, meaning you often see scatters there, even though they would never hit. It's annoying, but not rigged and not illegal.

It's also very common for games to change reel sets when moving to a bonus round, so you will indeed see different quantities of symbols (see my threads about Danger! High Voltage and Lil' Devil). Again, this is standard and not illegal. It's also still random.

So no, games do not 'actively' work against you. They passively do by virtue of their math models and their reel setups.

Casino's in regulated markets do not lie about the real RTP. In fact, they can't. They have to report real RTP vs TRTP and if there is a divergence the game and casino gets investigated by the UKGC. If you believe there is a Casino that is breaking the law here, report them to the UKGC with your evidence and they will be investigated and lose their license.

As I wrote above, the Casino can NOT decide what RTP they want to set for Play N Go games. Play N Go produce multiple RTP versions of their games (so they might do a 92%, 94% and 96% version), the casino then chooses the one they buy. Once bought and placed on the site, the RTP must be displayed and reported on as above. They cannot change to another RTP version without going through testing and regulatory approval.

Semantics: The branch of linguistics related to the meaning of words. Your meaning of 'Rigged' differed to my meaning of 'Rigged', therefore, Semantics. Casino's are not 'deliberately' fixed. They rely on the maths and odds of games to return them a specific margin. Some months a game will lose money, some months it will make money. Overall, it makes money because of statistics.

Of course it's random and it's independently tested and accredited to be so. Just because you transform a random number into a specific range to suit the game you need (I.E, into a stop position on a reel with 150 symbols) does not make it any less random.

Share this post


Link to post

Leave it, he can't even provide a link to the discussion on 2+2 with all the information he claims, implying a group community effort, to have analysed. 

Edited by dirtystack
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

If you had just stated that Play and Go are robbing piles of crap in the main I would believe it more. RTP differences of 1 or 2 % mean actually very little over say 100 spins. Over 1000000000 spins yes you will see it.

Share this post


Link to post
On 15/12/2019 at 21:38, RespG40 said:

If you had just stated that Play and Go are robbing piles of crap in the main I would believe it more. RTP differences of 1 or 2 % mean actually very little over say 100 spins. Over 1000000000 spins yes you will see it.

The difference between 98% and 96% is HUGE, it literally halves your playtime. How?

98% RTP = 2% house edge

96% RTP = 4% house edge

It's literally a difference of 50%

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, apudekikker said:

The difference between 98% and 96% is HUGE, it literally halves your playtime. How?

98% RTP = 2% house edge

96% RTP = 4% house edge

It's literally a difference of 50%

Over how many spins is the point? You won't see it after 100 spins is what I am saying. Over billions and billions of spins that will be the RTP, doesn't really make the game play much different.

Share this post


Link to post

 

5 hours ago, RespG40 said:

Over how many spins is the point? You won't see it after 100 spins is what I am saying. Over billions and billions of spins that will be the RTP, doesn't really make the game play much different.

It makes a disgustingly big difference.

Assuming you have €100, and spin at €1, you will be able to do on AVERAGE 4951 spins at 98% RTP before the balance reaches 0.

On 96% RTP this average totals to 2476 spins.

You clearly have no idea how RTP works, no offense, but the 'billions of spins' only applies to accurately calculating the average, it does NOT mean that you will only see a difference after a billion spins. Attached is a chart for your convenience.

 

Again, on average starting with 100x stake balance:

98% RTP = 4951 spins

96% RTP = 2476 spins

You don't need a billion spins to feel that difference bro. Pay attention to RTP.

 

example.png.6454bdff7e2c7f0fcd52772bdd02c1e2.png

Edited by apudekikker

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, apudekikker said:

 

It makes a disgustingly big difference.

Assuming you have €100, and spin at €1, you will be able to do on AVERAGE 4951 spins at 98% RTP before the balance reaches 0.

On 96% RTP this average totals to 2476 spins.

You clearly have no idea how RTP works, no offense, but the 'billions of spins' only applies to accurately calculating the average, it does NOT mean that you will only see a difference after a billion spins. Attached is a chart for your convenience.

 

Again, on average starting with 100x stake balance:

98% RTP = 4951 spins

96% RTP = 2476 spins

You don't need a billion spins to feel that difference bro. Pay attention to RTP.

 

example.png.6454bdff7e2c7f0fcd52772bdd02c1e2.png

What a load of absolute nonsense. No game will be close to its RTP after that many spins.

I'll give you my videoslots screens as an example of this.

During those spins you mention you could hit a huge win at any point rendering anything above completely meaningless. This is what you have left out. Winning spins are not taken into account in your calculation. Remember it's based on RNG. The percentages vary massively but overall the game is designed, eventually, to reach its RTP. It might give 700% to one player and 10% to another. 

 

 

Screenshot_20200122-134830_Samsung Internet.jpg

Screenshot_20200122-134833_Samsung Internet.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, RespG40 said:

What a load of absolute nonsense. Blablablablabla

 

 

Screenshot_20200122-134830_Samsung Internet.jpg

Screenshot_20200122-134833_Samsung Internet.jpg

Do you know what the word average means? You're embarrassing yourself mate.

Edited by apudekikker

Share this post


Link to post

150 rounds on book of dead and no bonus???!!! THE HUMANITY!

Share this post


Link to post

I don’t think you guys really disagree with each other, you both know 98% rtp would enable your bankroll to last, on average, twice as long if you spin for a prolonged amount of time, compared to the 96% version of the same game.

Resp40 has just taken an extreme vantage point to take the stance that it isn’t noticeable from a players perspective if it is over a short amount of spins. He has chosen 100 as his figure and done 1650 spins to show that short term the effect isn’t noticeable. He isn’t wrong except in his assertion that it would take billions of spins to see an average.

if he took his stance to the extreme it could be that there is no noticeable difference for a singular player who only played 1 spin.

it takes many spins for the average to be observed,

billions?

No

100 000+
Normally levels out to the advertised rtp but I’ve had times during “most spins” tournaments where I have done over 300 000 spins and been running at 84% rtp on games with 96% rtp.

And also the opposite, my rtp is over 100% on jamming jars for example with several hundred thousand spins.

 

Edited by dirtystack

Share this post


Link to post

Just to add, and make people feel better, just had another £7-£10 betsize Reactoonz session and lost another £2500 -  taking my total losses at the £7 - £10 betsize to £15 000

The amount of Garga I have had in £15 000 at £7-£10 betsize?

zero, nilch, nada, not a single one.

Over many casinos, Unibet, Kindred, Dunder, 21casino, Casilando, Slottyvegas, amongst others.

Pretty much everything I won from the Dunder and Slotty vegas promos, 5k and 10k respectively.

 

 

Edited by dirtystack
Overestimated my total losses a bit so recounted, emotional state etcetc

Share this post


Link to post

Played the rizk race, 500 spins at £0.40

Went as expected

Start £502.84 

End after 500 spins - £200 worth of spins, £394.28

Rtp 45.72%

Wins over 10x = 1

Largest win - £4.60

Gargas = 0

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...