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To what extent are slot predetermined?

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Regarding games with gamble feature.

 

It just rerolls  the rng when you press gamble.

 

For it to do otherwise and that it pays the same as it intended to when triggering the bonus doesn't make much sense to me as it would imply that even if you lose the gamble and do 0 spins you should still get the same payout as if you did 8, 16, 20 or 24 spins.

 

There is most likely some quite complex math behind these games, dynamic RNG and RTP that only overall has to come in line with the stated figures. It doesn't have to line up for everyone. 

 

We see what we want to see and are always on the lookout for anything that confirms our suspicions.

 

Also dragons fire has no gamble feature and of course its predetermined what you will get for the bonus, its how slots work, you bet, they pick a number and show you a visual representation that correlates to that number. 

Edited by dirtystack
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I don't know, I get a bit annoyed by these observations of a singular persons experience passed off as fact.

I've seen a ghost, in jogging gear, chased after me on a stormy night as I was walking through a park near a lake.

If anyone is so suspicious of the gambling industry then they owe it to themselves to study mathematics and programming, get a job working for BGT or whomever and expose them, here on the forum, with facts and figures. Free the people from the tyranny of the slot providers.

Lack of conviction?

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9 hours ago, dirtystack said:

Regarding games with gamble feature.

 

It just rerolls  the rng when you press gamble.

 

For it to do otherwise and that it pays the same as it intended to when triggering the bonus doesn't make much sense to me as it would imply that even if you lose the gamble and do 0 spins you should still get the same payout as if you did 8, 16, 20 or 24 spins.

 

There is most likely some quite complex math behind these games, dynamic RNG and RTP that only overall has to come in line with the stated figures. It doesn't have to line up for everyone. 

 

We see what we want to see and are always on the lookout for anything that confirms our suspicions.

 

Also dragons fire has no gamble feature and of course its predetermined what you will get for the bonus, its how slots work, you bet, they pick a number and show you a visual representation that correlates to that number. 

Exactly that.. you can choose not to gamble and get zero wins in your 8 spins the same as if you would gamble and loose the gamble to zero spins... 

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I've been paid 0 in 8 spins once. 

It would have to happen 50% of the time that you took 8 spins if it worked they way you think.

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Have to concur with some on here on the gamble features. Will use Blueprint as an example. You get a feature on say Ted. You gamble your feature from the bottom feature up to the big money. There is no conceivable way on earth that the bottom feature would pay even 10% of the top feature. Basic gameplay 100% is predetermined as is all about luck. Must say there is no "skill" involved in gambling a feature, again it's just luck.

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Maybe when you hit bonus round on extra chilli the possible payouts are determined there and then;

0x for 0 spins,

1500x for 8 spins,

40x for 12 spins,

1000x for 20 spins,

400x for 24 spins.

 Where you stop gambling or whatever determines which, of the  predetermined figures calculated when you press spin, will be your reward.

 

 

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18 hours ago, dirtystack said:

 

Maybe when you hit bonus round on extra chilli the possible payouts are determined there and then;

0x for 0 spins,

1500x for 8 spins,

40x for 12 spins,

1000x for 20 spins,

400x for 24 spins.

 Where you stop gambling or whatever determines which, of the  predetermined figures calculated when you press spin, will be your reward.

 

 

It's an interesting argument. There have been 100 posts about the Chilli gamble wheel. There is some "proof" from certain samples that wheel 2 loses more often than not which doesn't fit with the mathematical or logical model. Some even crying false representation. You know what, i think there is a bit of both. However, I'd say unless you can afford to lose a lot of money I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

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Extra Chilli is just terrible for me, whether I spin or buy the feature, gamble or don't gamble.

77% rtp for me after 30000+ spins 

Edited by dirtystack

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i've seen evidence that Blue Print's pickers are already determined, so it doesn't matter which you pick you will reveal what ever was determined... Usually when you do a picker this way they are not supposed to reveal the things you couldn't pick but i'm guessing if the odds of the pre-determined item are true (that is what they appear to be) they can display the ones you couldn't pick... for example if you have three lamps, there is still a 33% chance of picking any of the hidden choices it's just chosen before you have picked it then can display what you didn't pick... still seems a little cheap to me but mathematically it's fair...

Other pickers, usually ones tied to huge jackpots are pre-determined and you can tell this because they wont show you what you could have picked when you picked all you can... that's because what you picked isn't true, that is the chance of you getting the 4 golden orbs to unlock the top jackpot is not 4 out of 15 (assuming 15 items to choose - and yes 4/15 is actually not the real odds, it would be something like 1/15 x 1/14 x 1/13 x 1/12 but i'm too lazy to do that calc)... anyway, the odds are not 4/15 to get the 100k prize it's probably more like 1/100k or something...

 

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This is how it works:
If you can gamble a feature, you will get a different outcome if you choose to do it or not (Extra Chilli, Vikings Unleashed etc)

If you can select between features, depending on the one you pick there will be a different outcome (Danger High Voltage)

If you get to select between different things in a bonus round (not gamble it), but you only get revealed what you picked after the fact, the outcome was already determined when you pressed spin originally (Genie Jackpot, Dragon's fire, Wish upon a jackpot, loads and loads more games.)

 

All of these are fine and can be designed so that RTP is correct. To note is that if you do a 50/50 gamble in Extra Chilli and win, your bonus will on average pay out roughly twice as much as if you hadn't gambled. If it didn't, it wouldn't be ok to offer.

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What about games you can quickspin like blueprint ones? Surely the game can't send for a RNG wait for reply, get reply then decide how its played that fast. We have all seen how fast you can click those games even with a very slow internet speed

Also games like chilli I can believe that the actual win you get isn't predetermined until you click collect.

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On 18/01/2019 at 10:24, Andreas said:

If you can select between features, depending on the one you pick there will be a different outcome (Danger High Voltage)

 

I had a gameround on DHV, where the game froze before i manage to pick the feature. It took a few days to sort it out, and my balance was credited with the outcome of the bonus. If the outcome is based on what you pick, how can that be possible in my case? Shouldnt i be able to play my round, or did the provider or casino choose my pick, and if so, would it be fair to ask me which result i want if they are different?

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1 hour ago, pausefisk said:

I had a gameround on DHV, where the game froze before i manage to pick the feature. It took a few days to sort it out, and my balance was credited with the outcome of the bonus. If the outcome is based on what you pick, how can that be possible in my case? Shouldnt i be able to play my round, or did the provider or casino choose my pick, and if so, would it be fair to ask me which result i want if they are different?

In those cases of frozen game the provided will often run 5 or 10 features and pay you the average result, happened to me on secrets of Christmas I had a frozen bonus round and the casino had to contact netent and that's exactly what happened they ran 10 bonuses and paid me the average result.

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Are you not effectively contradicting yourself when you say some games are predetermined and then you gamble, lose and end up with nothing. That's not predetermined.

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I also think everything is predetermined like, when the casino house wants to pay you then it will pay you. Why I'm telling this apparently nonsense. For example, lets take BOD for example: How many times happened to all of us that it hits 2 scatters 3 or 4 times in a row and didn't want you to get the bonus until the time has come. You also expect from hand to hand to finally receive the bonus and you know it will happen very soon as you observe that the 2 scatters hands come more and more frequently and finally this is what happens, you get the bonus. Then, when a "random" card is choosen. If you had the luck that let's say 5-10 session before it gave a small card, then you have the luck to get a character on your session. I might be paranoical but this is how I feel like.

Then, an even better example reel heist, where you're spending a lot of money while the cop chasing the thief and you get nothing because it wasn't meant to bring you any winnings at that time. Reel Heist and Reactoonz are the best arguments that not everything  that happens behind the slots is random or luck. On reactoonz it happened plenty of time to make no combination just before Gargantoon being released. I released it a few times though but never won big. From what I played so far I can say that only big time gaming are 100% random and correct. What do you guys think!?

On 20/01/2019 at 17:20, Dbaird123 said:

What about games you can quickspin like blueprint ones? Surely the game can't send for a RNG wait for reply, get reply then decide how its played that fast. We have all seen how fast you can click those games even with a very slow internet speed

Also games like chilli I can believe that the actual win you get isn't predetermined until you click collect.

Exactly. Napoleon, for example. Best scammy slot ever...also the goonies. All the games with random features are not trustworthy!!

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Are you kidding me.

If you have some doubt about the speed at which information can be communicated across the internet then perhaps you should, I don't know, search the internet and inform yourself about the speed at which information is communicated. 

Surely.

Exactly.

You are noticing the lack of the final connection to trigger Garga a lot more then any other connection because it is close to triggering Garga, it hits you more, resonates with you more then when you miss the connection to take you to 50% of the third bar been filled. 

This thread is just so full of confirmation bias, deluded gut feelings, and conjecture from people who possible lack the ability to figure anything out in a logical manner.

If you think it is so rigged then you should investigate, learn everything there is to actually learn, go and work for one of these slot providers so you can find out whats really going on. But you won't, because it requires rationale to accomplish such a feat.

I could actually do this as I am in the business anyway, I could find out from IGT. The thing is, no matter what I or anyone else were to say, it would be met with disbelief based on self confirming observation "exactly" and "surely" and "I think".

 

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I have seen the same thing on Goonies. Even before i picked a bonus (spinned the wheel) my balance was updated and it was exact as I won in bonus that i ended up with. So yeah, choices don't make a difference, the bonuses are predetermined and that's it. 

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